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MattJMM2
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^That article was pretty terrible.

Pretty much says "paleo might wrong, because paleo-people had to eat what was in their local environment".

Which is actually a basic tenant of paleo... eat what is seasonal and local.

I can understand the sentiment that it's not usually wise to jump face first into dogmatic dieting mysticism; however a diet that makes you look, feel and perform better is obviously superior to one that doesn't.

It's been found that most health benefits are gleaned from getting leaner, and IMO, it's way easier to get leaner (read: achieve calorie deficit) by eating paleo-esque foods.

11/11/2011 2:42:29 PM

Chance
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Quote :
"and, again, have someone come on ANY news outlet and call Obama a minstrel or say he was cow-towing to his white masters and see how well that goes."


I would expect it would go the same fucking way...with the questioner not saying a damn fucking thing about it.

11/11/2011 2:48:25 PM

timswar
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I can't find "minstrel" listed as an ethnic slur anywhere

Not doubting y'all, I just can't find reference to it as an actual ethnic slur without referencing Minstrel Shows.

/I'm not saying conservatives are desperate to make liberals look racist against Cain... but...

//Also not saying that it wasn't intended as a racist statement, I'm just looking for clarification

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 4:20 PM. Reason : Matthew got huffy, so I edited]

11/11/2011 3:54:19 PM

Solinari
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lord god, timswar.

11/11/2011 4:10:23 PM

timswar
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What, you never came across a term you weren't familiar with and questioned it?

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 4:18 PM. Reason : Ok, in deference to your tender and senstive nature I'll remove the bs and leave the question]

11/11/2011 4:16:56 PM

Solinari
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You should go check a mirror, it looks like you might still have a democrat party pubic hair stuck between your teeth

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 4:20 PM. Reason : seriously, it's right between your canine and incisor]

11/11/2011 4:19:04 PM

timswar
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Awww. It's so cute when you get insulting instead of actually saying something useful.

11/11/2011 4:22:08 PM

Solinari
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I figured that you could use my advice... but maybe you just like the taste. Who am I to judge?



[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 4:28 PM. Reason : LOL, did that white boy just question whether its racist to call a black man a minstrel?]

11/11/2011 4:26:09 PM

Chance
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Where is it "defined" that minstrel literally means white person in blackface? I'm having trouble nailing down how it is racist to call someone a minstrel.

11/11/2011 5:23:13 PM

EuroTitToss
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Quote :
"^That article was pretty terrible."


Yup. And everyone with a clue recognizes it. The problem is that this kind of shit is what gets shown to the public and your average joe is going to take unscientific nonsense like that at face value.

I've seen the same bias on CNN. During a particular week, 90% of their "Health" articles were rehashes of the same article on veganism (with the promises that it was guaranteed to prevent all heart attacks....what...the...fuck?). Their "health experts" have a vegeterian slant too. It's ridiculous.

11/11/2011 5:30:22 PM

aaronburro
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"Where is it "defined" that minstrel literally means white person in blackface? I'm having trouble nailing down how it is racist to call someone a minstrel."

A minstrel is a racist stereotype of a black man that originiated from around the Civil War period. There is also some reference in it today to Uncle Tom's Cabin. It can be played by a white person in blackface, or it can be played by a black person. What makes it worse in this instance is that the person commenting was essentially saying that Herman Cain was up on stage doing a song and dance for his white masters. Again, how in the FUCK does something that overtly prejudiced and, frankly, outright racist, get airtime on NPR?

11/11/2011 5:39:56 PM

Chance
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Quote :
"A minstrel is a racist stereotype of a black man that originiated from around the Civil War period."


In present/common vernacular? Which authority has deemed this? Which right wing website did you read about this to get you all mouth foamed?

11/11/2011 5:43:51 PM

aaronburro
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are you seriously questioning the freaking defintion of "minstrel"? is wikipedia now a conservative website?

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=is+minstrel+racist

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 5:49 PM. Reason : ]

11/11/2011 5:48:06 PM

timswar
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Yeah, see that's a Minstrel Shows. Your own link confirmed it (seriously, do you think Google wasn't the first place searched?). As was stated on the previous page, a Minstrel does not equal a Minstrel Show. There's a difference between the terms, and it's a pretty damned important difference.

BUT

http://www.wbur.org/npr/142218107/herman-cain-and-the-politics-of-race

There's a link to what was said (something missing from your posts, it would have been helpful).

He might have been referencing Minstrel Shows. If so, he definitely said something offensive and racist. The problem here is that the term was so damned vague and inappropriately used that there's little chance the NPR interviewer or editor would have caught it. I definitely wouldn't ahve caught it in order to edit it out of the interview. I'm not seeing a lot of Right Wing blogosphere outrage either, which means it's slipped by them as well. Plus the context of the quote is that he's putting on a song and dance in order to appeal to poor voters.

Quote :
" Cain has said poor people are poor because they want to be, and says that while racism may still exist, it is only marginally relevant in the 21st century. His public appearances are often sprinkled with cheerful, folksy expressions and spontaneous outbursts of gospel songs.

"He's even willing to be a minstrel for them," White says, "referring to himself in some terms as cornbread, and referring to his father speaking ungrammatically"


FWIW it really seems like "them" is referring to the poor.

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 5:52 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 5:55 PM. Reason : /]

11/11/2011 5:50:11 PM

Chance
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I searched it before. I don't think this really has the type of connotation of race like nigger, which is maybe where we are talking past each other. Calling someone minstrelsy could be stereotyping them but it just doesn't seem to be such a pejorative. Though I'm white, maybe this is the problem.

11/11/2011 5:54:49 PM

Chance
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Look, this is the third example I've found

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2011/02/12/black-history-month-is-herman-cain-playing-the-race-minstrel-for-cpac/

and they all say the same thing, in a nutshell

"minstrelsy is when someone (white or black) are performing (negative or otherwise) stereotypes for an audience"

In Cains case all three are saying the same thing "that Cain is 'acting'" with some saying it's to placate white people.

Racists...err. I don't really think so. Regardless, your original point was to do what conservatives have been doing for awhile...pretending they are being persecuted in some fashion by a liberal MSM that has a double standard about all things conservative or whatever. Seriously, I hear this shit every day on Rush, Hannity and the local call in shows (where the real ignorants come out) and it's just fucking tired...this whole "CAN YOU IMAGINE IF A REPUBLICAN WOULD HAVE SAID THAT. CAN YOU IMAGINE IF A BLAH BLAH BLAH ANYTHING BUT DEMOCRAT WOULD HAVE SAID THAT"

11/11/2011 6:02:33 PM

aaronburro
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Quote :
"He might have been referencing Minstrel Shows."

might? MIGHT? he pointed to a black guy and then said the word "minstrel" and then talked about a song and dance. what the fuck more do you need? did he need to start doing Mammy to convince you? Or are you REALLY trying to say he was referring to Herman Cain as a medieval singer?

Quote :
"The problem here is that the term was so damned vague and inappropriately used that there's little chance the NPR interviewer or editor would have caught it."

really? they are talking about a black guy, questioning "how black he really is" and the editor isn't looking closely for anything that might be offensive, and the word "minstrel" doesn't raise an eyebrow in the least? gimme a fucking break.

Quote :
"FWIW it really seems like "them" is referring to the poor."

BULLSHIT. The "them" was plainly referring to "white republicans."

Quote :
"pretending they are being persecuted in some fashion"

bullshit. pointing out a double standard isn't the same as saying OH WOE IS ME!!!! it's just pointing out the motherfucking double standard!

11/11/2011 7:47:39 PM

screentest
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its funny, to me, how many conservatives suddenly turn into members of the PC Police if it means they can score a few rhetorical/political points

with language its all about context

a black dude accusing another black dude of bojangling isn't racist; he used a racial term, you could argue that his point is wrong, but it ain't racist

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 8:20 PM. Reason : ...]

11/11/2011 8:12:05 PM

y0willy0
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keep em coming guys-

youre setting yourselves way back.

11/11/2011 8:17:20 PM

aaronburro
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its funny, to me, how many conservatives liberals suddenly turn a blind eye into members of the PC Police to blatant racially insensitive remarks if it means they can score a few rhetorical/political points would have to defend a conservative minority person.

Quote :
"a black dude accusing another black dude of bojangling isn't racist"

why? because he's black? only whites can be racist now?

11/11/2011 8:19:54 PM

screentest
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its not racist because he's not suggesting that the guy is inferior because of his race

Quote :
"its funny, to me, how many liberals suddenly turn a blind eye to blatant racially insensitive remarks if it means they would have to defend a conservative minority person."


almost anyone who makes a big deal solely out of someone's choice of word, and not their intent is retarded. couple years back, when people made a big deal out of Imus' "nappy headed hoes" remark, stupid waste of time.

do you honestly believe that all, or most, "liberals" have specific hang-ups with colored conservatives?

11/11/2011 8:27:16 PM

timswar
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"he pointed to a black guy and then said the word "minstrel" and then talked about a song and dance. what the fuck more do you need? "


Considering that what a minstrel does is do a SONG AND DANCE you're going to have to do a lot better than half of a racist statement equalling a whole racist statement.

Seriously, the desperation of conservatives in trying to paint everyone else as racist is kinda amusing. You're latching onto this guy saying that Cain is doing a song and dance on stage and using it to try and accusing him of calling Cain and Uncle Tom. That's just desperation.

11/11/2011 8:27:29 PM

aaronburro
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Quote :
"its not racist because he's not suggesting that the guy is inferior because of his race"

why? what in your scenario specifically talks about what the black guy is suggesting? and what in your scenario specifically says a white would have to be suggesting inferiority? exxxxxxxxxxactly.

Quote :
"almost anyone who makes a big deal solely out of someone's choice of word, and not their intent is retarded."

very true. and yet, isn't it funny, that an almost identical statement is made by someone on the left, and it is completely ignored? hmmm...

Quote :
"do you honestly believe that all, or most, "liberals" have specific hang-ups with colored conservatives?"

fuck yes, many do. they hate any black person that has the audacity to think for himself. they can't comprehend why a black person wouldn't want to be a slave to the democratic party machine.

Quote :
"Considering that what a minstrel does is do a SONG AND DANCE you're going to have to do a lot better than half of a racist statement equalling a whole racist statement."

in a minstrel show. is your contention that there is nothing racist or even racially insensitive about a minstrel show? or is it your contention that this guy pointed to a black guy, said he was singing and dancing for white people, playing the part of Mammy, but that the guy was saying he was a medieval court jester?

Quote :
"You're latching onto this guy saying that Cain is doing a song and dance on stage and using it to try and accusing him of calling Cain and Uncle Tom. That's just desperation."

yes, because no one else in the liberal world has been calling him an uncle tom, have they? nope. jeez, please forgive me for seeing a black man called a minstrel, a term that specifically connotes an Uncle Tom character and a racially insensitive stereotype, and for connecting the mother fuckin dots. but yeah, no one has been calling Herman Cain an uncle tom...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/29/1021377/-Uncle-Herman-%28Tom%29-Cain
http://www.good.is/post/why-herman-cain-is-good-for-black-america/
http://conservativeblackchick.com/blog/2011/09/29/dl-hughley-says-herman-cain-good-candidate-for-pancake-box-not-president/

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 8:46 PM. Reason : ]

11/11/2011 8:36:58 PM

timswar
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Once again. Minstrel does not equal minstrel show. Seriously, shall I go ahead and google this for you?

Minstrel:
Quote :
"A minstrel was a medieval European bard who performed songs whose lyrics told stories of distant places or of existing or imaginary historical events. Although minstrels created their own tales, often they would memorize and embellish the works of others. [1] Frequently they were retained by royalty and high society. As the courts became more sophisticated, minstrels were eventually replaced at court by the troubadours, and many became wandering minstrels, performing in the streets and became well-liked until the middle of the Renaissance, despite a decline beginning in the late 15th century. Minstrelsy fed into later traditions of traveling entertainers, which continued to be moderately strong into the early 20th century, and which has some continuity down to today's buskers or street musicians."


Minstrel Show (in the context of post-Civli War America)
Quote :
"The minstrel show, or minstrelsy, was an American entertainment consisting of comic skits, variety acts, dancing, and music, performed by white people in blackface or, especially after the Civil War, black people in blackface."


This guy did not accuse Cain of putting on a minstrel show. He accused Cain of behaving like a minstrel. Now please, quit projecting onto this guy.

11/11/2011 8:45:42 PM

aaronburro
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Quote :
"Once again. Minstrel does not equal minstrel show. Seriously, shall I go ahead and google this for you?"

and, ONCE AGAIN, what part of pointing to a black guy and calling him a minstrel makes you think there ISN'T a racial undertone? hmmm?

allow me to post the question again...
Quote :
"or is it your contention that this guy pointed to a black guy, said he was singing and dancing for white people, playing the part of Mammy, but that the guy was saying he was a medieval court jester?"


[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 8:47 PM. Reason : ]

11/11/2011 8:47:22 PM

timswar
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That would be my ability to understand the difference between a minstrel and a Minstrel Show. It's a reall easy difference to understand, I'm surprised you haven't figured it out yet. Perhaps if you googled it you could learn the difference!

11/11/2011 8:50:16 PM

aaronburro
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how does that cognitive dissonance feel right now, dude

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 8:57 PM. Reason : ]

11/11/2011 8:51:51 PM

timswar
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None to be found, but you're projecting so hard you could work as a movie theater.

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 8:57 PM. Reason : Seriously, why else do you keep after this guy when Toure actually DID what you're accusing of here.]

11/11/2011 8:54:44 PM

aaronburro
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it is, AGAIN, your contention that he pointed to a black guy, said he was singin and dancin for white people, then uses a word that can mean one of two things: a medieval court jester; or a black guy (or guy in blackface) singing and dancing for white people. and you say his meaning, when talking about a black guy and saying he was singing and dancing for white people, was NOT the meaning of a black guy singing and dancing for white people. REALLY


Quote :
"Seriously, why else do you keep after this guy when Toure actually DID what you're accusing of here."

and you just proved my god damned point! someone else said it NOT TWO FUCKING WEEKS AGO!!! and this dude just magically says it again? get the fuck out of here

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 9:00 PM. Reason : ]

11/11/2011 8:57:48 PM

timswar
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Go back, read the two definitions.

Minstrel Show is included as a whole term. That is not an accident. It differentiates the term from an actual minstrel.

Hell, if he'd even used the term minstrelsy you'd have something, because that term apples to both minstrels and Minstrel Shows.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/31/toure_herman_cain_is_nothing_but_a_minstrel_character_here_to_entertain_you.html

This guy actually did that. Go bitch about him. It was on MSNBC and not NPR so you'll have to find another thread but at least you'll get your "omg LIBBY Lib Lib Racists" moment.

11/11/2011 9:03:01 PM

qntmfred
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http://www.theroot.com/views/herman-cain-done

Quote :
"By: Jack White

Cain never was and never will be more than a minstrel act in the Republican nominating process, an entertaining diversion for white conservatives so eager to establish their lack of bigotry through their showy (albeit transitory) support for a black man that they overlook his total lack of qualifications. Indeed, they are so hell bent on thumbing their nose at the mainstream media that they rushed to Cain's defense, driving him even further up in the polls"


[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 9:05 PM. Reason : intent was there. is he a racist for it?]

11/11/2011 9:04:09 PM

timswar
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Ok, now THAT was racist. The NPR quote notsomuch but his actual article is racist. Although not for the use of minstrel itself, but for the statement right after it.

Of course, only the NPR quote applies in this thread. If you want to bitch about Anti-Cain racism go do it in a different thread.

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 9:06 PM. Reason : .]

11/11/2011 9:05:07 PM

screentest
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Quote :
"why? what in your scenario specifically talks about what the black guy is suggesting? and what in your scenario specifically says a white would have to be suggesting inferiority? exxxxxxxxxxactly."


i don't know what you're asking me

it wasn't racist because the guy wasn't saying Cain was inferior because of his race

if White was white, it still wouldn't be racist

maybe more people would find it offensive, or racially insensitive, but who gives a fuck

your histrionics related this to topic are obnoxious. you aren't stirred by a sincere care for race relations, you're merely using this "issue" as a crowbar to pry open your LIBERALS ARE THE WORST chest.

Quote :
"fuck yes, many do. they hate any black person that has the audacity to think for himself. they can't comprehend why a black person wouldn't want to be a slave to the democratic party machine."


anyone with a slavish devotion to any political machine is a dope. your implication that blacks who don't vote republican don't think for themselves, seems to put you alongside those losers.

do you think you'll ever be ready to start contributing to making this world a better place? a less hostile, narrow, asshole-dominated place? you don't have to be a bile-fueled hate factory. aaronburro, you're better than that.

11/11/2011 9:05:42 PM

qntmfred
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it's a good thing burro didn't hear about what juan williams said last year. dude would have had a conniption.

11/11/2011 9:19:14 PM

aaronburro
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Quote :
"Ok, now THAT was racist. The NPR quote notsomuch but his actual article is racist."

so, it is now your claim that he wrote an article using one definition and then used the same word but with a different definition not even a week later, after, IN THE SAME INTERVIEW, specifically alluding to that very offensive definition. really. he wrote an article, saying that cain was singing and dancing for white people, then later in an interview discussing cain's race, said cain was singing and dancing for white people, then used the word "minstrel" but DIDN'T mean it to mean a black guy singing and dancing for white people. really. that's your case?

Quote :
"it wasn't racist because the guy wasn't saying Cain was inferior because of his race"

where in your "bojanglin" scenario is that said? where.

Quote :
"if White was white, it still wouldn't be racist"

really... pointing to a black guy and saying he was singing and dancing for white people and then using a word that specifically points to a stereotype of black people as stupid and foolish isn't racist. really?

Quote :
"your implication that blacks who don't vote republican don't think for themselves, seems to put you alongside those losers. "

I wouldn't say that all blacks who vote democratic are like that, but there's something to be said when such a massive percentage of an ethnic group consistently votes for the same party, no matter what. it speaks to brainwashing.

^ hell, what Juan said (that got him fired, I assume) really wasn't all that bad. That's the hypocrisy of which I speak. Juan talked about a personal feeling he had that HE KNEW WAS WRONG, and he got fired for it. This guy practically uses a racial slur on air and no one even bats an eye

11/11/2011 9:31:00 PM

screentest
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Quote :
"really... pointing to a black guy and saying he was singing and dancing for white people and then using a word that specifically points to a stereotype of black people as stupid and foolish isn't racist. really?"


not to me. if the claim was that his blackness made him act that way, then i'd see it as racist. too many people walk around on eggshells in regard to race. clearly, it ain't just namby-pamby liberals doing it anymore.

Quote :
"I wouldn't say that all blacks who vote democratic are like that, but there's something to be said when such a massive percentage of an ethnic group consistently votes for the same party, no matter what. it speaks to brainwashing."


without a doubt, mindless followers are always a problem. but i think you're identification of such people is selective. nearly every poor, middle American person (regardless of race) who has subscribed and continues to subscribe to either of the major parties are just as brainwashed.

11/11/2011 9:50:23 PM

aaronburro
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Quote :
"if the claim was that his blackness made him act that way, then i'd see it as racist."

that's what is inherent in bringing up the fucking stereotype, dude!

11/11/2011 10:17:38 PM

timswar
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I thought I was pretty clear. What was racist wasn't the use of the word minstrel, but what he said right after that.

Seriously, stop. Bitch about something NPR is actually responsible for.

/Seriously, if the chief racebaiters like Limbaugh and Baeck haven't mentioned this then there's not even smoke and definitely not fire.

[Edited on November 12, 2011 at 7:41 AM. Reason : .]

11/12/2011 7:38:51 AM

Solinari
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timswar, the fact that you would never dare to call a black man a minstrel to his face says much more than all your agonized contortions and hair splitting on this forum.

Just shut the fuck up about it - we all know it was racist as shit

11/12/2011 7:44:05 AM

timswar
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Do you ever have anything useful to say? Go crawl back under your rock.

11/12/2011 8:37:17 AM

Solinari
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Why can't I "like" your post? I need to lay off the facebook.

11/12/2011 9:58:14 AM

Lumex
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Still waiting for that backlash from the black community over this NPR racism thing.

11/12/2011 10:45:08 AM

Solinari
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since when has the black community cared about black on black violence

11/12/2011 10:46:48 AM

aaronburro
BigMan rules
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thanks for the propaganda piece for Occupy Wall Street yesterday on Marketplace, a news show. I remember all of those tea party protesters you gave a mic to and let them speak for 5 or 10 minutes. no bias my ass

11/15/2011 6:15:40 AM

HockeyRoman
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Speaking of Marketplace, I find it amusing and sad that David Frum no longer does his bi-weekly contribution because the republicans have become too fringe and radical for him to properly reflect that side on issues.

11/15/2011 6:45:08 AM

Solinari
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=conservatives+liberals+gallup

lovin that "fringe" lol owned

11/15/2011 9:58:07 AM

aaronburro
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-1 for making me cringe on the way to work this morning at the sound of Dubya's voice.

11/22/2011 10:22:05 AM

Str8Foolish
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Speaking of Frum: http://nymag.com/print/?/news/politics/conservatives-david-frum-2011-11/

"When Did the GOP lose touch with reality?"

11/22/2011 10:32:30 AM

thegoodlife3
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welp

that ruled

11/22/2011 1:24:51 PM

lewisje
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^^I greatly enjoyed both that article and the article by Jonathan Chait pointing out that liberals never seem to be satisfied with Democratic Presidents.

11/23/2011 3:56:18 PM

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