The generation destroyer mentioned as being "assholes" was the baby boomers... The generation who was born into politics at the greatest time of liberal anti-establishment in that century.

I find it very hard to believe that our generation, raised collectively with silver spoons lodged in our throats, has a higher degree of skepticism than the boomers..

1/4/2012 3:32:44 PM

Going from silver spoon to college graduate w/ no job and a pile of debt...that's going to promote some skepticism.

1/4/2012 4:03:05 PM

if you're a college graduate with no job, you should have chosen a worthwhile major.

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-college-major-unemployment-20120104,0,1914395.story?track=rss

1/4/2012 4:26:16 PM

yeah, if you are someone who isn't very good at math or science suck a dick

1/4/2012 4:39:41 PM

Quote :

"Ron Paul wins 48% of the 17-29 year old vote, 11% of the baby boomer vote. Make no mistake: this is a battle between generations. The baby boomer generation has lived the high life by creating debt and overspending. They plan to continue amassing debt until they die, at which point they will dump all of it on us. As soon as these assholes die off, we might be able to have a free(r) society."

Come on. The 17-29 yr old demographic doesn't have any clue about what you just posted. The 48% are the idealistic independents who see Paul as their only choice to end wars and "do something" about Wall Street and cronyism. These were the people that voted for Obama thinking he was going to do the same thing until he wiped his ass with all their ballots. Had he actually done something about Wall Street I don't think Paul would be polling nearly as well as he is.

I don't think any of them think in terms of "our parents fucked this up".

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 4:43 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2012 4:42:57 PM

Quote :

"if you're a college graduate with no job, you should have chosen a worthwhile major."

You don't have sympathy? Parents and media bombard kids with these ideals:

1. Always follow your passion
2. Choosing not to go to college is a huge mistake

1/4/2012 4:55:52 PM

Quote :

"These were the people that voted for Obama thinking he was going to do the same thing until he wiped his ass with all their ballots. Had he actually done something about Wall Street I don't think Paul would be polling nearly as well as he is. "

What more did you expect Obama to do about Wall Street? He advocated changes and Congress did not follow through. He's not a law-maker.

Ron Paul won't get shit done either, but that's half his platform.

1/4/2012 5:06:31 PM

Quote :

"Come on. The 17-29 yr old demographic doesn't have any clue about what you just posted. The 48% are the idealistic independents who see Paul as their only choice to end wars and "do something" about Wall Street and cronyism. These were the people that voted for Obama thinking he was going to do the same thing until he wiped his ass with all their ballots. Had he actually done something about Wall Street I don't think Paul would be polling nearly as well as he is. I don't think any of them think in terms of "our parents fucked this up"."

I think you're short-changing a lot of RP supporters. Yeah, you've got some idealistic independents/Democrats in there.

You've got a lot more people that simply recognize that what we're doing is not sustainable and that in our lifetimes, big changes will have to be made. The old people don't care - they're spending with borrowed money because they'll be dead or senile before it can become a concern for them.

For the rest of us that might be here for 50-80 more years, we see the writing on the wall. The United States can't continue doing what it's doing. The government is too big and it's still growing.

1/4/2012 5:22:18 PM

Quote :

"if you're a college graduate with no job, you should have chosen a worthwhile major. http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-college-major-unemployment-20120104,0,1914395.story?track=rss"

Yeah, not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, banker, or an engineer. Even if they could, the social sciences, liberal arts, and education is just as important to humanity as the rest, even if they aren't assigned the same $ value in our current society.

The irony is that while everyone is getting worked up over 9-10% unemployment, by the time most of us are ready to retire, its going to be more like 30-40%. The demand for entire categories of employment will be gone.

Hell, manufacturing is already gone and it's never coming back (thanks Reagan/Bush Sr.). Services will continue to dwindle as technology replaces the need for actual humans in many roles. The bottom line is that people like Ron Paul who are trying to fight the "welfare state" are dinosaurs. We need strengthen it and make it more efficient. The sad thing is that the rest of the developed world figured this out over half a century ago while we're still treading water.

1/4/2012 5:23:10 PM

Quote :

"What more did you expect Obama to do about Wall Street? He advocated changes and Congress did not follow through. He's not a law-maker."

Find one press release, one communication, one video clip

of Obama saying that ANY Wall Streeter likely needs to be investigated and perp walked.

Fuck Obama. It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't run on a populist message but he did and then did squat for the populace. Fuck Obama.

And don't tout the liberal "CFPA regulations blah blah blah" talking point. Neither Obama or any of the Wall Street democrat puppets actually pushed serious legislation that would have reigned in Wall Street in any way whatsoever. Goldman Sachs switched to a bank to get Obamabucks during the bailout....WHY ARE THEY STILL A FUCKING BANK? MF Global and Corzine straight fucking stole from depositors with JPM and GS involved...where is the peoples President saying that any wrongdoing will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and he won't stop until every criminal has been sent to jail ala Ferdinand Pecora.

Quote :

"You've got a lot more people"

Not in the 17-29 Demographic.

Quote :

"that simply recognize that what we're doing is not sustainable"

You're talking debt. Idealistic 17-29 year olds want convictions and troops back home.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 5:29 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2012 5:26:22 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, banker, or an engineer. Even if they could, the social sciences, liberal arts, and education is just as important to humanity as the rest, even if they aren't assigned the same $ value in our current society."

You don't need 4 year university to learn the social sciences.

1/4/2012 5:34:50 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, banker, or an engineer. "

these aren't the only professions/majors/degrees that have low unemployment.

1/4/2012 5:52:27 PM

Quote :

"Hell, manufacturing is already gone and it's never coming back (thanks Reagan/Bush Sr.). Services will continue to dwindle as technology replaces the need for actual humans in many roles. The bottom line is that people like Ron Paul who are trying to fight the "welfare state" are dinosaurs. We need strengthen it and make it more efficient. The sad thing is that the rest of the developed world figured this out over half a century ago while we're still treading water."

This type of mentality just scares the ever living fuck outta me. It's pretty clear you honestly have no comprehension about data and are more than ready to spout party line platitudes that are as equally disconnected from reality.

1/4/2012 5:59:41 PM

What the President just did with trying to make recess appointments could be the number one talking point and Ron Paul is the perfect person with the perfect position to talk about it.

Let's just PRAY someone in the media (Fox, MSNBC, CNN, etc.) has the cojones to talk with him about it.

Because you KNOW what Robert Byrd would be thinking about this right now, were he still breathing air.

1/4/2012 6:10:56 PM

^^ Dude, it's Shrike. He doesn't have a clue about what America is or can do.

I'm surprised he managed to find this thread.

No, nm...he's just a troll for Big Government.

1/4/2012 6:12:41 PM

Quote :

"Find one press release, one communication, one video clip of Obama saying that ANY Wall Streeter likely needs to be investigated and perp walked. Fuck Obama. It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't run on a populist message but he did and then did squat for the populace. Fuck Obama. "

So when you say "done something about Wall Street", you mean convict some investment bankers?

Obama was elected to the office of the US President. He wasn't elected "Batman". Ron Paul won't be convicting anyone either if he becomes President.

1/4/2012 6:16:39 PM

Quote :

"What the President just did with trying to make recess appointments could be the number one talking point and Ron Paul is the perfect person with the perfect position to talk about it."

Hahahahahaha, the President is doing exactly what his supporters have wanted him to do for 3 years. The only people that talking point will resonate with are people who have already made up their minds.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, Ron Paul:

Quote :

"Ron Paul wants to define life as starting at conception, build a fence along the US-Mexico border, prevent the Supreme Court from hearing cases on the Establishment Clause or the right to privacy, permitting the return of sodomy laws and the like (a bill which he has repeatedly re-introduced), pull out of the UN, disband NATO, end birthright citizenship, deny federal funding to any organisation which "which presents male or female homosexuality as an acceptable alternative life style or which suggest that it can be an acceptable life style" along with destroying public education and social security,, and abolish the Federal Reserve in order to put America back on the gold standard. He was also the sole vote against divesting US federal government investments in corporations doing business with the genocidal government of the Sudan. Oh, and he believes that the Left is waging a war on religion and Christmas, he's against gay marriage, is against the popular vote, opposes the Civil Rights Act of 1964, wants the estate tax repealed, is STILL making racist remarks, believes that the Panama Canal should be the property of the United States, and believes in New World Order conspiracy theories, not to mention his belief that the International Baccalaureate program is UN mind control.."

Although his ideas probably sound pretty good to his supporters watching a Youtube video at 4AM in the morning after smoking a bowl.

1/4/2012 6:24:18 PM

Quote :

"Obama was elected to the office of the US President. He wasn't elected "Batman". "

Really, this is your response? Get the fuck outta here.

1/4/2012 6:44:15 PM

Quote :

"Ron Paul wants to define life as starting at conception, build a fence along the US-Mexico border, prevent the Supreme Court from hearing cases on the Establishment Clause or the right to privacy, permitting the return of sodomy laws and the like (a bill which he has repeatedly re-introduced), pull out of the UN, disband NATO, end birthright citizenship, deny federal funding to any organisation which "which presents male or female homosexuality as an acceptable alternative life style or which suggest that it can be an acceptable life style" along with destroying public education and social security,, and abolish the Federal Reserve in order to put America back on the gold standard. He was also the sole vote against divesting US federal government investments in corporations doing business with the genocidal government of the Sudan. Oh, and he believes that the Left is waging a war on religion and Christmas, he's against gay marriage, is against the popular vote, opposes the Civil Rights Act of 1964, wants the estate tax repealed, is STILL making racist remarks, believes that the Panama Canal should be the property of the United States, and believes in New World Order conspiracy theories, not to mention his belief that the International Baccalaureate program is UN mind control"

Half of this shit is just false. Did you write this, or are you copying and posting from some progressive message board/news aggregate? How does it feel to be a propagandist?

Some of it's true and I don't have a problem with it. You're the guy that wants an ever-expanding welfare state, so your opinion isn't all that relevant.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 6:53 PM. Reason : ]

1/4/2012 6:52:22 PM

Paul voted Aye for the Secure Fence act of 2006 or some shit like that. I was mildly incredulous at some things on that list myself, found a link where every statement is supported. Ill try to dig it up again.

Here ya go

http://aattp.blogspot.com/2011/12/truth-about-ron-paul.html

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 7:09 PM. Reason : a]

1/4/2012 7:08:45 PM

Some of that is legitimate, some of it's just where he didn't want the federal government to rule on something either way. There was nothing to confirm that he is "still making racist comments".

Ultimately, if you're supporting the government that is murdering people and locking them up for victimless crimes, that makes you a bad person. I don't care that Ron Paul is religious, even though I despise religion, because I'm willing to establish priorities.

Ron Paul is the only one that would end the killing and make an honest attempt to stop the systematic rape of the middle class by the banker class. It's not likely that I'll find any politicians that I agree with 100%, but there's nothing I take more seriously than loss of human life.

1/4/2012 7:40:22 PM

Quote :

"Half of this shit is just false. Did you write this, or are you copying and posting from some progressive message board/news aggregate? How does it feel to be a propagandist?"

He copied it from here: http://stfuconservatives.net/post/14139763176

And yeah, it's very misleading. Some of it is true or semi-true, and I don't agree with it. Some is true, and I do agree with it. Much of it is false or worded in a way that makes him look like a bigot.

Supports gay marriage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UJz81lAwY0M#t=120s

Doesn't support border fence (don't know why he voted for that bill in '06): http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/09/ron-paul-border-fence-could-be-used-to-keep-us-in/

edit: Ok, here is the reason: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/

Quote :

"You want a 700-mile fence between our border and Mexico? Ron Paul: Not really. There was an immigration bill that had a fence (requirement) in it, but it was to attack amnesty. I don't like amnesty. So I voted for that bill, but I didn't like the fence. I don't think the fence can solve a problem. I find it rather offensive."

Still don't agree with him about amnesty.

Not going to check it all. I highly doubt Shrike did either.


[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 9:03 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2012 8:55:08 PM

Quote :

"yeah, if you are someone who isn't very good at math or science suck a dick"

then chances are you probably didn't need to go to College in the first place. The world really doesn't need English and Creative Writing majors.

Quote :

"The bottom line is that people like Ron Paul who are trying to fight the "welfare state" are dinosaurs. We need strengthen it and make it more efficient."

yes, when we are, as you say, facing 30-40% unemployment, we should REALLY make it so our government will collapse hard under the weight of entitlements. that makes perfect sense.

Quote :

"Hell, manufacturing is already gone and it's never coming back (thanks Reagan/Bush Sr.). "

thank your beloved unions, instead, for making it impossibly expensive to run most manufacturing outfits here in the US before you blame Bush and Reagan.

Quote :

"Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, Ron Paul:"

looks like someone can copy-pasta from chain emails here.

1/5/2012 10:57:54 AM

^I can agree that the world doesn't need people to go to college to major in that. But if you are suggesting that humanity would be better off without art then I'd say your are wrong.

1/5/2012 11:15:58 AM

Quote :

"But if you are suggesting that humanity would be better off without art then I'd say your are wrong."

Is there anyone that is suggesting that?

Criticism of the primarily debt-based, 4-year university model is a far cry from "suggesting that humanity would be better off with art". If you want to "learn" art, you're better off buying some canvases and paint or a musical instrument, not tossing thousands of dollars into the abyss that is higher education.

I read somewhere in the "support" for all of those claims that Ron Paul didn't believe in a right to privacy. This suggests otherwise:

Paul says Santorum ‘confused’ over privacy

Quote :

"“I think he’s [Santorum] very confused …,” Paul told CNN. “If property rights and individual liberty and the Fourth Amendment [do not] protect privacy, what does the Fourth Amendment do? “I mean, that is privacy,” the Texas congressman said. “You’re not supposed to have the government come in and invade our houses. That’s what the Patriot Act has done. And this is why the Patriot Act repealed the Fourth Amendment, and Rick Santorum is completely wrong on that.”"

http://www.conservativeactionalerts.com/2012/01/paul-says-santorum-confused-over-privacy/#.TwWqhf_9rNE.reddit

[Edited on January 5, 2012 at 11:54 AM. Reason : ]

1/5/2012 11:38:44 AM

Quote :

"If you want to "learn" art, you're better off buying some canvases and paint or a musical instrument"

LOL

you have no idea what you're talking about.

1/5/2012 12:08:12 PM

Feel free to elaborate.

1/5/2012 12:09:45 PM

i mean, you can take lessons to get better at art, and there is a value in learning about some of the fundamentals behind music, but a full-fledged 4-year degree? come on...

1/5/2012 12:15:34 PM

Art isn't just painting and music. You realize artists are the graphic designers working for dreamworks, they are the ones designing porches, creating iPhones, etc..

If you're talking about art-history majors, you might could make a case for them being worthless, but the best things/technologies we humans create have at least a touch of artistry to them.

1/5/2012 12:16:14 PM

If you actually know what graphic designers do, you realize that it's very different than pure art.

1/5/2012 12:19:01 PM

The graphic designers that are good in the bay area make $100K plus. There is hella demand for them because a lot of the good ones are the ones designing for Apple and the like. We had one that actually based everything off her hand painted stuff that she painted. There are others that take a more traditional (graphic design)approach. There are also IE's that actually do molds and sculpting before using a computer.

I would say good art is more in demand than a business major by an order of magnitude. We need more creators and less bullshitters.

[Edited on January 5, 2012 at 12:21 PM. Reason : a]

1/5/2012 12:19:03 PM

a simple cap on loan amounts based on major would help alot.

and bullshitters make the world go round, nothing will change that.

[Edited on January 5, 2012 at 12:23 PM. Reason : .]

1/5/2012 12:22:20 PM

^^To be fair, bullshittery is a very transferable skill that can be used in nearly all industries.

1/5/2012 12:23:08 PM

^

You need good bullshitters, but we have overblown abundance of mediocre to bad ones. That doesn't help anyone. The good bullshitters make deals and alliances, the bad siphon a salary from people that could be building something the good bullshitters can use to make deals.

[Edited on January 5, 2012 at 12:25 PM. Reason : -]

1/5/2012 12:24:40 PM

Quote :

"We need more creators and less bullshitters."

What do you mean by this?

1/5/2012 12:26:32 PM

Quote :

"If you actually know what graphic designers do, you realize that it's very different than pure art."

So you're basically arguing against a very narrow, ambiguous group of people, for the specious claim that marginalizing them will somehow make everything better.

You are starting to think more like a politician...

1/5/2012 12:37:23 PM

^^

People that can create stuff: Software, hardware, new product ideas, organic honey, jeans, business ideas that can go to market, etc

Anyone from a hacker in silicon valley to a stay at home mom making necklaces on Etsy.

Seth Godin would call it a Linchpin and he over uses artist but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBIVlM435Zg

[Edited on January 5, 2012 at 12:38 PM. Reason : a]

1/5/2012 12:37:53 PM

^
Gotcha. I thought you were trying to separate freelance artists from career-oriented artists or something.

1/5/2012 12:40:29 PM

Quote :

"So you're basically arguing against a very narrow, ambiguous group of people, for the specious claim that marginalizing them will somehow make everything better. You are starting to think more like a politician..."

He's arguing that you don't need to go to college to become a painter, sculptor, musician, etc. If you are going for an occupational position, then yeah, you might be better off going to college.

1/5/2012 12:42:26 PM

Quote :

"We need more creatorsworkers and do-ers and less bullshitterswelfare recipients and 14th century british poetry hipster graduates."

1/5/2012 1:52:25 PM

I think if people would go ahead research it for themselves (that is, not relying on what any media organization tells them), they would see how consistent and true to the Constitution Ron Paul is, compared to anyone, be it a Democrat, a Republican, a former Democrat, a former Republican, a governor, a senator, a businessman, a politician, a doctor, or a community organizer with no political experience at all.

That's why he came in a close second in Iowa (Santorum and Romney tied), why he is only 14 points down in New Hampshire, and why he has more support among military members than all other Republican candidates, combined.

1/5/2012 7:51:31 PM

Quote :

"He's arguing that you don't need to go to college to become a painter, sculptor, musician, etc. If you are going for an occupational position, then yeah, you might be better off going to college. "

You don't have to go to college to be anything. Ask Bill gates, Jobs, Wozniak, or Zuckerberg (and a lot of the other silicon valley icons weren't grads either). In the real world, if you are good at something, people will pay you to do it. College as we know it is a dying institution.

I know plenty of people in technical, decision-making positions in jobs that have nothing to do with their degrees. NCSU's own IT chancellor is a civil engineer.

I can pretty much guarantee that the average design school major is going to be a better problem solver than the average business or communications major, just because being creative is more valuable than just following procedures.

If you are going to hate on educational choices, there are more useless things than art majors. You won't hear politicians though, and thus their internet lackeys, mock business, comm, poli sci, or history majors.

[Edited on January 5, 2012 at 8:24 PM. Reason : ]

1/5/2012 8:21:25 PM

^
You don't really need a college degree for many engineering jobs. You learn everything you need to know in job training, and any calculations are high-school level and below. The purpose of your degree is only to show that you're intelligent enough to have graduated from an engineering program (which isn't all that impressive anyways). That's my experience, at least.

So why does an artist need a degree? It doesn't cost anything to collaborate with other artists and trade skillsets.

http://foundationstart.org/

1/5/2012 8:34:51 PM

college is a racket. you guys haven't figured that out, yet?

1/5/2012 8:44:08 PM

Quote :

"If you are going to hate on educational choices, there are more useless things than art majors. You won't hear politicians though, and thus their internet lackeys, mock business, comm, poli sci, or history majors."

I'll be the first to mock Political Science as a major, and I was one. It's not that what I learned was useless or incorrect, but 99% of what I did learn could have been taught without the thousands of dollars of tuition. In a practical sense, yes, it was worth the money because of the degree, but there has to be a better way.

1/5/2012 8:49:22 PM

You dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin’ education you coulda' got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the Public Library.

1/5/2012 8:53:18 PM

Things like MIT Open Courseware and Stanfords online computer classes (graded entirely by computer, and using computer algorithms to determine which concepts people mostly struggle with) are the future.

You have to imagine that when our population balloons to a billion or so, the format of having people trudge to a physical class and sit around for a fixed 50 minutes or so will become obsolete (hopefully, anyway). We have more people that want to go to college than we have classroom space already, and this is untenable.

1/5/2012 8:56:03 PM

you can always build more buildings. last thing we need is an educational interface that is as annoying as the self-checkout system at harris teeter.


not to mention the importance of social interaction....

[Edited on January 5, 2012 at 9:00 PM. Reason : ]

1/5/2012 8:58:32 PM

The self-checkout system was probably designed by someone who gave no deference to art/design, which is what the people in this thread want.

Also, computers are going to get smarter and less invasive (and have been...), don't worry too much about that aspect

You'll have more time to socially interact with people, when you can zip through the concepts of a 55 minute lecture in 15 minutes on your own time...

[Edited on January 5, 2012 at 9:03 PM. Reason : ]

1/5/2012 9:02:25 PM

computers are not going to save us.

1/5/2012 9:03:25 PM