You do know he is a programmer at microsoft, right?

I'm not saying he knows more than you be does this every day while you (at last check) slang pizza dough.

If you were both witnesses at a software related trial who is the jury going to believe?

6/29/2011 10:57:07 PM

After knowing Noen in person, I'm pretty sure he switched majors to Industrial Design because he could do computer programming in his sleep.

But let me clarify that he was talking about enterprise software, not consumer and not open-source.

A lot of 'hacking' is social engineering or brute force, not so much computer hacking

[Edited on June 29, 2011 at 11:32 PM. Reason : .]

6/29/2011 11:29:29 PM

Well I'll be god-damned.


There may be hacker-proof software after all. But I doubt you knew this because it was just published January 26 of this year, 2011. It's not "enterprise" software, either. I want to put my head through a wall to make the pain stop when I hear you say "enterprise" software is hack-proof.

The so called software is "a third-generation microkernel of L4 provenance and it comprises of [ONLY] 8700 lines of C code and 600 lines of assembler" called sel4 and reportedly it's mathematically proven. I am a man of mathematical faith because in all of my life, math has never failed me and has stayed true to logic. I still won't believe it until I've seen it though.

The only reason I'm posting these published articles is because a) it's news to me, b) it's news to you and c) by its own admission, it might be the world's first hacker-proof software. It can't be the FIRST if your little enterprise software idea came first.

In conclusion, That's called a slam dunk.




Goodnight and God Bless.

[Edited on June 30, 2011 at 1:02 AM. Reason : .]

6/30/2011 1:00:21 AM

Did I really just see the college dropout reference his major?

Ohhohoh this thread is rich. As a software professional in the world of finance, I find bitcoin fascinating from a monetary and technological perspective....however as an investment 'opportunity' I'm quite skeptical.

6/30/2011 1:30:16 AM

^^ Your original "it's evident that no site is hacker proof" was stupid, because you pointed out examples of code and installations with known (and patched) vulnerabilities, combined with poor judgement and credentials on the part of the administrators and users.

Then you follow with a logical fallacy that "because hackers exist, there is no hacker proof code". Hackers can absolute exist in the presence of hacker proof code, because hacking can be attempted and not be successful.

And no, danger is not imminent at all times no matter how secure you may think you are.

Knowing the systems in place at many financial, industrial and governmental institutions, there are many systems and networks in this world that are, for all intent and purpose, hacker-proof. They are still breached all the time, but due to defects in the people using those systems, not the system itself.

And I'm talking about real-world hacking here, not academic exercise. In absolute terms damn near every electronic system is hackable, provided the hacker has physical access and several hundred thousand dollars of electrical equipment. But we are talking about open-network internet hacking here, which is a completely different thing entirely.

And as for the degree, my MASTERS is in Industrial Design. My undergraduate was Computer Science. And I took, among other things, computer security, networking, assembly and theory of languages (aka write your own compiler). So yes, I understand the concepts here.

[Edited on June 30, 2011 at 2:16 AM. Reason : .]

6/30/2011 2:15:02 AM

unsuccessful hacking is not hacking, tard.

6/30/2011 3:14:57 AM

I'd say it just makes you a really shitty one.

6/30/2011 3:21:45 AM

It doesn't make you one at all if you think about it.

6/30/2011 3:31:47 AM

Quote :

"And I took, among other things, computer security, networking, assembly and theory of languages (aka write your own compiler)"

These are all high-level programming languages. These sit on top of the low-level programming languages which control the hardware and control the higher-level programming languages.
By changing the rules in the low-level programming languages, you automatically change the playing field that the higher-level programming language play on, you are in essence in control of the entire system.

Let's take a real life example. Let's say you wanted to be able to punch a guy in basketball without getting a technical foul called on you. We all know you can't punch a guy in basketball without a foul. You can complain to the refs... but they're not going to do anything about it. You go to another level above the refs and complain to the NBA about it, but they're going to reject you.

So how do you make it so you CAN punch a guy legally? Answer: you go straight to the rulebook and you change the rules in your favor. The NBA will check the book, say ok. The NBA will forward the message down every level and viola! You hacked the game of basketball.

Remember, code is very loyal. It only does what you program it to do and doesn't question the motives.


....until someone re-invents artificial intelligence. I say re-invent because human beings are computers by nature and our artificial intelligence exists. By simply 'existing', the probability of us hacking ourselves to recreate ourselves artificially, given infinite time, is 100%.


[Edited on June 30, 2011 at 3:57 AM. Reason : .]

6/30/2011 3:54:18 AM

Are you drunk or something?

6/30/2011 4:08:40 AM

I'm not drunk or high

If someone came upto you and told you to make something that weighed 500,000 pounds float in mid-air, you'd say "yeah right, that's impossible"

Yet look at what we have here:



If someone came upto you and told you to make something that weighed 200,000,000 pounds float on water, you'd say "yeah right, that's impossible"


Yet look at what we have here:






Do you think whatever created us wanted us to have these things? Electricity, Atomic Bombs, Periodic Tables...I think not. These are hacks that exist in the universe. Our universe is coded and we're hacking the system.

If our universe is coded, and we can manipulate it, that means EVERYTHING is possible.

If we can hack the universe, then we can hack any computer you may conceive.

But the shitty thing is... if everything is possible then an unhackable system is possible, too. but how can it exist if a hacker can always hack everything?

Which leads us to... If God can do anything, can God create a rock that he can't lift?

If he can, then he can't do everything because he can't lift the rock. If he can't, then he can't do everything.

You have to conclude that it's impossible.

Nope. you don't have to conclude it's impossible.


Aircraft carriers and Airplanes are simple. In less than a 100 years, we'll have space stations and colonizing other planets. Earthquakes and hurricanes will be soft gusts of wind compared to solar storms and black holes that we'll have to battle against.

I shouldn't say 100 years, because we'll figure out how to live 1000 years, the only way to travel between galaxies before we invent teleportation and find wormholes.

After that, I do believe, the game is over. We conquered the universe.

[Edited on June 30, 2011 at 5:15 AM. Reason : food for thought.]

6/30/2011 5:06:03 AM

Let's do something large.

6/30/2011 7:58:04 AM

I love watching GB try to prove that he is smarter than Noen, this is awesome.

6/30/2011 1:02:48 PM

hes been infected by captain higgins- theres no hope for him now.

6/30/2011 1:14:53 PM

Any actual news on bitcoin?

6/30/2011 1:24:51 PM

What are you expecting to happen? The only thing you'll see in the news generally is commentary on how bitcoin has failed, which has not at all happened.

The difficulty is increasing because a lot of people have started mining following the price increases and media attention.

Regarding this "hacker proof" code bullshit, I'll say it again. Mtgox's security was a fucking joke and they knew. They've even admitted it:

Quote :

"VI. Apology The truth is that Mt. Gox was unprepared for Bitcoin’s explosive growth. Our dated system was built as a hobby when Bitcoins were worth pennies a piece. It was not built to be a Fort Knox capable of securely handling millions of dollars in transactions each day. We can attempt to blame the owner of the compromised account for the recent events but at the end of the day the responsibility to secure the site and protect our users rests with us. The admin account responsible had more permissions than necessary, and our security triggers were not as tight as they could have been."

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20110630.html

They admit to sql injection holes in this press release. Everybody knows this shit is basic. They said sql injection was easy to prevent on NPR for fuck's sake.

6/30/2011 1:35:10 PM

How do you hack English grammar?
You go straight to the rulebook and change it.


http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=615012
http://www.ox.ac.uk/branding_toolkit/writing_and_style_guide/punctuation.html#athe_comma


It happens.





[Edited on June 30, 2011 at 2:52 PM. Reason : back to bitcoins.]

6/30/2011 2:45:00 PM

Quote :

"They admit to sql injection holes in this press release. Everybody knows this shit is basic. They said sql injection was easy to prevent on NPR for fuck's sake."

Amen.

Also,

Quote :

"These are all high-level programming languages."

x86 assembly is not a high-level programming language. It's ONE non-abstracted step above machine code. Once again you are talking out of your fucking ass.

Quote :

"By changing the rules in the low-level programming languages"

This is why hardware DEP exists. This is why TPM exists. This is why drive encryption exists. There is a difference between a hacker proof SYSTEM, and hacker proof CODE.

As I've said before, no SYSTEM that has human interaction is truly hacker proof. But that doesn't mean that ALL code in the system can be hacked. 99.99999% of a system's code can be hacker proof. Hence the term "exploits" and why with each generation of systems there are fewer and fewer to compromise.

If you really want to see this in a "Real life example" go watch the DefCon videos on the security of modern video game consoles. Where they expose the holes in the PS3, and follow by showing how the Wii and Xbox360 are, essentially secure platforms that cannot be rooted.

Quote :

"If someone came upto you and told you to make something that weighed 500,000 pounds float in mid-air, you'd say "yeah right, that's impossible""

No, I would ask how it achieved the thrust and lift needed for that much weight.

Quote :

"If someone came upto you and told you to make something that weighed 200,000,000 pounds float on water, you'd say "yeah right, that's impossible""

No, because I understand the basic physics of buoyancy. Displace enough volume with a lighter material and it will float, no matter how much it weighs.

Quote :

"Do you think whatever created us wanted us to have these things? Electricity, Atomic Bombs, Periodic Tables...I think not. These are hacks that exist in the universe. Our universe is coded and we're hacking the system. "

I was created by my parents, and yes they want me to understand these things. And no, these are not "hacks". It's scientific process through observation and experimentation. The universe isn't a secure system that we are gaining unauthorized access to. It's a natural system that we continue to seek better understanding of.

How much weed do you smoke dude?

6/30/2011 6:22:04 PM

I normally advocate not feeding trolls, but beating them with a stick works too.

6/30/2011 6:24:50 PM

"No, I would ask how it achieved the thrust and lift needed for that much weight."



I'm laughing my fucking ass off. Assuming he told you that information, you'd surely know how to build the airplane. hahahahaha.

Thanks for the laugh!

6/30/2011 7:48:59 PM

I seriously hope GeniousBoy is drunk, because Noen is walking all over him. It's sad really.

7/1/2011 12:42:06 AM

It kinda of irks me that you think that all you need is theory in order to build a plane or a ship. Someone had to TELL YOU THAT THEORY. Sure it's easy once you know the exploit.

The goal of the exercise wasn't whether you know how an airplane flies or how a ship floats. It's whether or not you would have thought of them BEFORE you were taught how to exploit a crack in the code.

For heaven sakes, we know ships and planes are possible. I posted pictures of them. You see them in the sky and water every day!

Let's take something that hasn't been invented yet. You can't ask someone for answers. They don't have the answers. You have to find the exploit yourself. The "easy" exploits have already been discovered.

"This is why hardware DEP exists. This is why TPM exists. This is why drive encryption exists. There is a difference between a hacker proof SYSTEM, and hacker proof CODE."

Hacker proof code isn't hacker proof if the hacker can hack the code through the system. Who really cares about hacker proof code if it can be hacked through the system. WHYYYYY would you even call the code hacker proof?? hacker proof means can't be HACKED.

Back to hacker proof enterprise code: There are millions of lines of code. MILLIONS. Written by hundreds and thousands of different coders. Some suck. Some are good. The higher the complexity of code, the higher the amount of bugs. The higher the complexity, the higher-order bugs. The more lines of code, the longer it takes to test. More features means more add-on code which equals to more bugs.

Testing is continuous throughout the program's lifetime. You may THINK a code is hacker-proof but what you think does you no good when your own code is hacked because there was a bug in the code you were not aware of. You are absolutely retarded, without any mathematical and intelligent proof to back up your claims, to claim that enterprise code is hacker proof.

Good Day, Sir.

[Edited on July 1, 2011 at 4:34 AM. Reason : .]

7/1/2011 4:31:13 AM

Quote :

"It kinda of irks me that you think that all you need is theory in order to build a plane or a ship. Someone had to TELL YOU THAT THEORY. Sure it's easy once you know the exploit."

Where did I say that? You said that a heavy plane is impossible to imagine flying. I said you were stupid.

Quote :

"Let's take something that hasn't been invented yet. You can't ask someone for answers. They don't have the answers. You have to find the exploit yourself. The "easy" exploits have already been discovered. "

This is yet another stupid premise. Exploits are discovered because of known conditions in a system. Hackers rarely, if ever, actually discover NEW methods of exploiting a system. They instead find new instances of a given exploit in a system. The two things are completely different, which is why your equating scientific discover to exploit discovery is stupid and flawed.

Quote :

"Hacker proof code isn't hacker proof if the hacker can hack the code through the system. Who really cares about hacker proof code if it can be hacked through the system. WHYYYYY would you even call the code hacker proof?? hacker proof means can't be HACKED."

Like I said, to hack a system doesn't mean all of the code is hackable (as you seem to continue to insist). It only means a SINGLE piece of code is hackable.

Quote :

"You are absolutely retarded, without any mathematical and intelligent proof to back up your claims, to claim that enterprise code is hacker proof."

No, see, I understand logical operators. You don't.

This is all because of your stupid logical assertion that as long as hacker exist, hackable code exists. Hackable code can exist without hackers and hackers can exist without hackable code. Correlation != causation.

7/1/2011 5:26:35 AM

GeniuSxBoY once again shows himself to be far from a "GeniuS"

while lolling around at the intellectual beatdown delivered by Noen I was struck by this passage:

Quote :

"The universe isn't a secure system that we are gaining unauthorized access to. It's a natural system that we continue to seek better understanding of."

[Edited on July 1, 2011 at 6:29 AM. Reason : omg h@x

7/1/2011 6:26:57 AM

You cannot view the entirety of Earth while standing on it. You need a different perspective from a different place than where you're standing to see what I'm saying.
I'm going to stop wasting my time since you clearly cannot grasp what I've reiterated 3 or 4 times.




[Edited on July 1, 2011 at 10:12 AM. Reason : .]

7/1/2011 10:11:50 AM

you are a fucking moron and i seriously hope you die

7/1/2011 10:27:05 AM

Internet compliments make me blush

7/1/2011 10:51:29 AM

We almost need to trash this thread and start over...

7/1/2011 10:55:03 AM

Stupid people arguing stupid shit.



Back to bitcoin discussion.

7/1/2011 10:57:09 AM

what's the difference between bitcoin discussion and stupid shit

7/1/2011 11:03:13 AM

Depends on what perspective you approach it by.

7/1/2011 11:07:35 AM

[golf clap]

7/1/2011 11:11:01 AM

ITT GeniusBoy doesn't know what hacking is.

7/1/2011 11:29:18 AM

What is hacking in your opinion Shadowrunner?

7/1/2011 11:49:35 AM

Quote :

"You cannot view the entirety of Earth while standing on it. You need a different perspective from a different place than where you're standing to see what I'm saying."

It him me. I finally think I figured out where you're coming from.

Quote :

"Hands Flat on Table With Thumbs Touching – Proves You Are Mirror Opposites – Not a Damn ONEist Lie. Opposites Pulsate Life, One Is Death. YOU DAMN EDUCATED STUPID ONEness FOOLS ARE DOOMED – Earth Has 4 Days In Same 24 Hours. TIMECUBE4 Transcends 1 Day God."

7/1/2011 11:56:49 AM

7/1/2011 12:08:39 PM

compute power in the pool I'm using is at an all time high - where are all these people coming from They added like 500 Gh/s in the last week.

Also; value needs to get up above $17 in about 51 days. Otherwise I'll need to recalculate my break even day

7/2/2011 6:02:39 PM

Genie sex boy has finally topped himself.

7/3/2011 12:11:53 AM

bitcoin is going insane right now

7/5/2011 3:38:02 PM

Quote :

"We have been receiving reports that customers trying to log in via Tor and other anonymizing networks are having intermittent access to MtGox.com. The primary reason for this is more IP's are being added to our blocklist as a result of increased attempts to break into accounts since the database leak. We are unable to guarantee you access to your account if you try to access Mt.Gox via these networks. We suggest that you try migrating to a different service or for the time being or use the IP address offered by your ISP if you continue to have intermittent access. "

script kiddies are driving the price down....

7/5/2011 3:45:31 PM

GOSH, HOW CAN I BUY MY DRUGS IF I CAN'T USE MY ANONYMOUS NETWORK TO ACCESS MY ANONYMOUS CURRENCY?

7/5/2011 3:49:38 PM

Quote :

"GOSH, HOW CAN I BUY MY DRUGS IF I CAN'T USE MY ANONYMOUS NETWORK TO ACCESS MY ANONYMOUS CURRENCY?"

You can be anonymous by being un-anonymous while you trade and anonymous while you buy drugs?


Just a guess.

7/5/2011 3:51:24 PM

Yea, that's actually the problem... it's not anonymous; it's pseudonymous. Every single transaction you make with bitcoin is available publicly for the rest of time.

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 3:55 PM. Reason : asfasdfs]

7/5/2011 3:54:40 PM

If I transfer a bitcoin to you, I am no longer associated with what you are going to do with that bitcoin.


You can still bitcoin launder.

7/5/2011 4:06:16 PM

Is anyone profiting off this?

7/5/2011 7:12:27 PM

Doesn't it seem like you're the most enthusiastic bitcoin user here?

7/5/2011 7:15:32 PM

Most definitely.


I mean, I've put in a lot of work, but I'm having fun and made about $200 so far off a $1000 investment.

7/5/2011 7:54:28 PM

so really you're -800?

7/5/2011 9:30:03 PM

Im in it for $600; but i upgraded 2 existing machines in use at the nonprofit. At worst i made a $600 tax deductable donation. Still looking to pofit by yhe end of tje year if value holds.

7/5/2011 11:11:00 PM

INSANE profits right now.

7/6/2011 1:24:48 PM