This article is awesome:

http://deanondraft.com/2014/07/20/tj-warren-operates-with-surgical-precision/

and this quote is even awesomer:

Quote :

"I don’t know precisely where I’d re-rank him on a re-draft, but the only player who I’m certain is more talented is Joel Embiid. I think TJ is good and Suns fans should feel good and I feel bad that I didn’t bother to scout him before the draft. All that’s left now is to root for him to rock and spread the nickname of “The Surgeon” since that’s how he handles his business on offense."

7/23/2014 3:46:45 PM

Nice quote but it is also bullshit. Love TJ but saying he is the 2nd most talentedplayer in the draft is super generous.

7/23/2014 9:39:08 PM

Obviously it's a stretch...but he led a major conference in scoring, did it at a ridiculous fg% and usage rate, and dropped his biggest games on conference opponents. Not saying he's going to blow up in the league...but it wouldn't be a surprise.

7/23/2014 10:22:18 PM

i've followed the draft closer than i ever have before. but to judge any NBA level talent until they meet NBA roster level defenders is almost idiotic.

7/24/2014 12:54:11 AM

It's not a stretch to say that it's possible a guy drafted #14 overall could be the 2nd best, or even the best, player in a draft. The best player from the 2011 draft went 15th.

It is a bit of a stretch to declare that after only watching said player in 5 summer league games. All the reasons given for why TJ fell to 14 are still valid criticisms, and we don't know how that'll pan out until he's played NBA games. What is ridiculous to me is people acting like what he did in summer league was some revelation. It's not like dude played in Croatia or for Mississippi Valley State. What he did this summer was exactly what he did for us all year. Now, I'm not claiming to know the ins and outs of every prospect (I had never seen Vonleh play, for instance), but I'm not an NBA scout. The way people are reacting to TJ's performance is as if they had never seen him play before, which is bizarre to me. And makes me think if he had more exposure, with the same flaws, he wouldn't have fallen to 14th.

7/24/2014 8:38:08 AM

^Saying the best player from the 2011 draft went 15 is a pretty bold statement. I'll agree that the first pick and the 15th pick are the two best players in the entire draft. Being the best player on the best team, doesn't make you the best player overall.

7/24/2014 10:46:58 AM

I'll just say that if TJ and Andrew Wiggins have similar career outcomes as Leonard and Kyrie in 3 years, that making the same definitive statement in TJ's favor would be accepted on TWW fairly easily.

They're up there as the two best players (so far) so it's really semantics, but I'd prefer having Leonard because scoring PGs with mid 40 FG%s aren't exactly a rarity in the league. Honestly, if Kyrie is 6 inches shorter I'm not sure what the difference between him and the last pick of that draft is.

7/24/2014 11:07:20 AM

I mean it is in a way arguing semantics. But making such a statement that Leonard is flat out a better talent/player than Kyrie is a bold statement. If the Spurs don't win the title and Leonard isn't the Finals MVP, a vast majority of people would not even consider Leonard and Kyrie in the same conversation. But because he was on the best team and was the best player in the Finals, he is the hot player. But Kyrie is an all star, something Leonard hasn't done yet.

Quote :

"if Kyrie is 6 inches shorter I'm not sure what the difference between him and the last pick of that draft is."

If Kyrie was 6 inches he would be tied as the shortest current player in the NBA.

7/24/2014 11:25:53 AM

Quote :

"If the Spurs don't win the title and Leonard isn't the Finals MVP, a vast majority of people would not even consider Leonard and Kyrie in the same conversation."

...

IF MICHAEL JORDAN DIDN'T WIN 6 TITLES, NO ONE WOULD THINK HE WAS THE GREATEST PLAYER EVER

also the 2011 draft was really, really shitty.

7/24/2014 11:32:58 AM

You're exactly right. So lets go ahead and say that Kawhi Leonard is better than all the other players that haven't won a title. Kawhi is better than Chris Paul. Kawhi is better than James Harden. Kawhi is better than Kevin Durant. So yes winning a championship does help with assessing how good a player is, but lets not say just someone wins a championship that puts them in front of other people. Kawhi is a player that plays hard and will go really far in the league; but so is Kyrie.

7/24/2014 11:42:21 AM

TRENT DILFER IS BETTER THAN MARINO!!! RAWRRR
ELI IS TWO TIMES BETTER THAN MARINO!!!!

7/24/2014 11:51:11 AM

This new guy is dumb.


Kawhi is better than my kyrie because he is a better player. No need to argue against dumb reasons you invented yourself

7/24/2014 11:54:12 AM

Please tell my why Kawhi is better than Kyrie....and go

[Edited on July 24, 2014 at 11:55 AM. Reason : ]

7/24/2014 11:54:44 AM

Kyrie: PPG: 20.7 APG: 5.8 RPG: 3.0 TO: 3.0 FG%: .447 3P%: .378 2P%: .472
Kawhi: PPG: 10.9 APG: 1.6 RPG: 5.8 TO: 1.0 FG%: .505 3P%: .376 2P%: .559

Yes please continue to show me how Kawhi is a better player than Kyrie.

Want something other than stats? 2 time all star, NBA all star game MVP (a game where all the best NBA players were playing, he was the MVP), Rookie of the year (same rookie class as Kawhi).

[Edited on July 24, 2014 at 12:14 PM. Reason : ]

7/24/2014 12:04:27 PM

Kyrie: PPG: 20.7 APG: 5.8 RPG: 3.0 TO: 3.0 FG%: .447 3P%: .378 2P%: .472
60th pick in 2011 draft last year: PPG: 20.3 APG: 6.3 RPG: 2.9 TO: 3.0 FG%: .453 3P%: .349 2P%: .504

looks like the same player to me

7/24/2014 12:27:43 PM

Two things:

First

Quote :

"Please tell my why Kawhi is better than Kyrie"

And second, why are you making up stats? The 60th player of the 2011 NBA Draft was Isiah Thomas to the Sacrament Kings. His stats are

PPG: 15.3 APG: 4.8 RPG: 2.5 TO: 2.1 FG%: .447 3P%: .360 2P%: .497

Actually looks like Kawhi is a little more comparable than Kyrie is.

Oh I see what you did. You went with last years stats. Sorry I'm comparing the player not the season. I'm using career stats.

[Edited on July 24, 2014 at 12:37 PM. Reason : ]

7/24/2014 12:35:35 PM

Two things:

First- TJ Warren Appreciation thread

Second- Kawhi isn't TJ Warren

7/24/2014 12:49:36 PM

Quote :

" The way people are reacting to TJ's performance is as if they had never seen him play before, which is bizarre to me. And makes me think if he had more exposure, with the same flaws, he wouldn't have fallen to 14th"

Please, TJ got plenty of exposure here. I think that he did not get a lot of buzz here because he is not a highlight-reel slama jama type a la Wiggins and Parker and such. He could easily score 20 pts without anyone ever noticing that he was on the court. The dude was just that efficient.

I think that now, while he is in the summer league, people have to notice him because all of these blue chip dudes are sputtering to a halt while he is just doing his normal thing, making buckets.

[Edited on July 24, 2014 at 1:14 PM. Reason : f]

7/24/2014 1:13:35 PM

^I agree.

Plus it's not like he didn't workout for teams and stuff prior to the draft. That line of reasoning (not getting enough exposure or whatever) might be accurate for mock drafts and TV analysts who are trying to predict stuff. But NBA teams have everything at their disposal to make informed, smart draft picks. Which isn't to say they never screw up, but I just don't think that's a reason for him falling to 14 (which is higher than most mocks had him, right?).

7/24/2014 2:21:14 PM

^ and those workouts clearly helped his stock a bit. heading into the draft many projected him as a late first rounder, in the mid 20's somewhere. he got drafted about 10 spots ahead of that because of the limited exposure he had against the other prospects. it's been fun watching him improve his reputation each chance he's gotten - from the last month of the season, through the pre-draft process, now through summer leagues. hope he keeps it up.

and when i say "heading into the draft", i mean more "the draft process". i think when he orginally declared he was seen as a late first rounder, but the time the draft rolled around most had him in the teens somewhere...

[Edited on July 24, 2014 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2014 2:35:13 PM

The main reason he dropped is because his 3-point shooting is suspect. The NBA has evolved into in a 3-point shooting league...and that's just the reality of it. A 40% 3-point shooter is just as valuable as a guy who shoots 50+% from two.

If he didn't have such a jacked up shooting form, he probably would have been picked higher because teams would think they could improve on his stroke. With that being said...I still think his shooting will improve and he will become a baller

Bad thing is that I think he's in a tough position in Phoenix. They've got a log jam at the guard and SF position. And all of the guys ahead of him can hit threes at a much better clip. If he can get out there and ball-out and hit a couple open threes from Green/Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas kickouts...then he can get some major PT.

7/24/2014 3:06:32 PM

Quote :

"Plus it's not like he didn't workout for teams and stuff prior to the draft. That line of reasoning (not getting enough exposure or whatever) might be accurate for mock drafts and TV analysts who are trying to predict stuff. But NBA teams have everything at their disposal to make informed, smart draft picks. Which isn't to say they never screw up, but I just don't think that's a reason for him falling to 14 (which is higher than most mocks had him, right?)."

Yeah, I've always bought the assumption that NBA scouts don't fall victim to media exposure and the such but I'm no longer completely convinced of that. I mean, I think we all to some degree accept that "unknown" prospects are judged differently in one way or another - a guy like Faried is questioned because of competition, with Euros you don't know if you're getting Darko, Dirk or Danilo...and I have to accept now that will happen to everyone. I was convinced after watching Thomas Robinson that he was a garbage basketball player with only one real NBA skill - and to some extent, that played out in the draft when he "fell" from the media projected #2 pick to #5. But that's still much higher than his talent should have gone, and I'm fairly certain that if he went to Wichita State instead of Kansas he wouldn't have been in the lottery.

As a more direct comparison, TJ went in the same draft location as the Morris twins who were just generic college PFs that you see every year. TJs skillset is much more unique, and some of that uniqueness factors into why he wasn't highly valued (because it doesn't fit into the "3 pointers or layups" way NBA scoring is starting to be pigeonholed) but far more often I've seen sentiment along the lines of "so he's a pure scorer that can't shoot...how exactly does he score, then?"

Ultimately, the scouts don't have the final call come draft day. Some combo of the GM and owner do. So yeah, the scouts will find you regardless of where you play. But the guys that go first don't have to be found.

7/24/2014 3:24:44 PM

Teams draft players on potential. Multiple players selected early in this draft have more potential than TJ.

7/24/2014 7:23:47 PM

Debatable.

7/24/2014 7:47:30 PM

JayBee Anya has more potential than Tracy Smith. Doesn't mean he'll ever fulfill it, but it's true.

[Edited on July 24, 2014 at 7:54 PM. Reason : Earley]

7/24/2014 7:54:03 PM

Depends how you measure potential. Personally, I think Jabari and TJ have similar potential and I might even think TJ has a higher chance of reaching it (while also having a higher chance of being a bust) but I can buy that there's bias involved there.

I can't buy that Nik Stauskas has higher potential than TJ. TJ has a projectable elite skill which gives him star potential. Now, maybe he never reaches that potential because the holes in the rest of his game are too big. But Nik Stauskas' potential is Dell Curry with a few more assists. Randle is an offensively focused 6'9 PF who currently can't do much outside the low post (and, being 6'9 without freak athleticism or length, is going to have a lot of trouble dominating the low post in the NBA). How is that any different than TJ being an offensively focused 6'8 SF who currently can't shoot?

7/24/2014 11:25:54 PM

Wiggins and Embiid both have more potential than TJ

Therefore my statement was accurate

7/24/2014 11:33:12 PM

kawhi was arguably the best player in the NBA last year. Kyrie wouldnt sniff the top 50, don't be ridiculous.

Kyrie is coming off a rough season, he was a completely average PG last year.


What was the Spurs regular season record last year when Kawhi played,,, like 50-8 or something ridiculous right?

His numbers were off the charts, you didnt even post either guys correct statistics.

Without even looking I know Kyrie didnt shoot 44.7% and Kawhi didnt average 10.9 ppg or 5.8 reb



Kawhi is undoubtedly a top 5 player in the league right now. Kyrie is arguably in the top half of PG's. Give me a break already.

7/25/2014 7:51:35 AM

Quote :

"kawhi was arguably the best player in the NBA last year"

Stop.

7/25/2014 8:22:05 AM

Quote :

"Wiggins and Embiid both have more potential than TJ Therefore my statement was accurate"

I could probably construct an argument on Wiggins but it's an accurate statement, sure. There were a lot more than 2 players selected before TJ, however.

7/25/2014 9:06:26 AM

just being real here, I am at a bit of a quandary with the whole "the NBA is now a 3-point shooting league" theory. For one, if that were true, then why is it that so many guards at the college and aau level are shooting at around 35% or so? If that was your one ticket, then why not just work on it and be a 40% guy...

Number two, guys like Scott Wood always get shafted.

7/25/2014 2:05:55 PM

Scott Wood has sucked huge balls in his summer league games.

7/25/2014 6:00:48 PM

Yeah, Wood is just not an NBA caliber player.

7/25/2014 6:02:12 PM

The issue with Scott Wood is that all he brings to the table is 3 point shooting. He was great at it at State. But you still have to have other desirable qualities of an NBA player. He can't put the ball on the floor at all. He isn't athletic enough to defend in the NBA. He's just not an NBA player. A 3 point shot alone won't be enough to make somebody an NBA player.

7/25/2014 6:33:41 PM

its not that the league is only 3 pointers now, it's that role players on the wing (and even some 4s) are becoming more and more pigeonholed into being guys that just stand in a corner and either create space for the star to drive to the hoop or wait for a pass

7/25/2014 6:43:30 PM

Quote :

" For one, if that were true, then why is it that so many guards at the college and aau level are shooting at around 35% or so? If that was your one ticket, then why not just work on it and be a 40% guy..."

I know, right? And these qb's that arent as accurate as Tom Brady, why don't they just practice and be that accurate??

7/25/2014 7:00:59 PM

Nice nod to TJ as the best rookie at Vegas

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11262752/andrew-wiggins-best-rookies-las-vegas-summer-league-nba?refresh=true

T.J. Warren | SG | Phoenix Suns

No one raced into the summer league gyms hoping to see Warren play, but everyone who saw him on the court left raving about him. On offense, he resembled a better scoring version of Luol Deng -- the current version of Deng, mind you -- as Warren routinely made strong plays inside while using terrific body control to finish shots.

Warren looked like a five-year veteran playing against kids. He did a great job working to get involved in the transition game, proving that speed alone is not the only way to score effectively on breaks. He just recognized he had a chance to race out and get open before his opponents did.

To be sure, it was clear he was given the green light to create buckets. He did a beautiful job of this, but as a rookie on a good team it is unlikely he will get those same looks as often as he did during summer league. But Warren also moved smartly without the ball in half-court sets, something he did well at North Carolina State, and that is a skill that fits right in with the Suns' scheme. Warren won't be the best overall NBA player from this class, but he might be the best pure scorer, and in my opinion he was the best overall rookie in Las Vegas.

7/26/2014 3:10:50 AM

good timing on the braces, as well.

7/28/2014 1:56:42 PM

PJ Tucker was arrested for a DUI on May 10th. Blew a 0.222

Strange thing is that the Suns were aware of this & still signed him to a multi-year contract recently. Regardless, this may bode well for early PT for TJ.

7/28/2014 9:54:58 PM

Quote :

"Tucker told the officer that he was coming from the W Scottsdale Hotel, where he had one beer."

That's awesome.

7/28/2014 9:59:03 PM

7/29/2014 7:58:15 AM

[Edited on August 4, 2014 at 10:14 AM. Reason : ]

8/4/2014 10:13:50 AM

What a waste of talent to put it into such an un-athletic body.

8/4/2014 10:19:32 AM

Quote :

"i seriously can't figure out if banjotard is a really shitty troll or really fucking dumb"

8/4/2014 10:25:08 AM

he looks like he's aged at least 3 years

8/4/2014 10:51:43 AM

9/17/2014 7:00:21 PM

Lol.

9/17/2014 8:09:22 PM

baseball throwing form is even worse than his shooting form

9/18/2014 12:31:01 AM

I see he switched over to Nike real quick.

9/18/2014 6:53:57 AM

so TJ throws like a girl and wears spanx...awesome

9/20/2014 8:39:18 AM