its entirely possible that i'm confusing you with stevenumbers

4/2/2005 8:15:50 PM

Quote :

"This thread is aimed more at stirring anti-immigrant sentiment than simply "opposing" illegal immigration."

Not true. But that is how YOU would like to misrepresent and mischaracterize it.

4/2/2005 8:18:45 PM

Quote :

"But that is how YOU would like to misrepresent and mischaracterize it."

This is one of the little traps that you repeatedly use to defend yourself. Whenever someone calls you out for what you really are, you immediately claim that you are being "misrepresented." I can only assume that this is a tactic learned by listening to hours of Alex Jones. As soon as you grow up enough to realize whats really going and actually begin to be responsible for all of the nonsense that you post on here, maybe you can have a rational discussion with the rest of TWW.

4/2/2005 8:24:25 PM

It's not a "trap." It's just telling the truth. You repeatedly misrepresent my positions. That and smear tactics are 2 of your major MOs.

4/2/2005 8:25:50 PM

Quote :

"You repeatedly misrepresent my positions."

No, I don't. I call you out and hold you responsible for what you post on here. Whenever someone does that, you become uncomfortable and slither out of accountability by claiming that you're being misprepresented.

Quote :

"That and smear tactics are 2 of your major MOs."

You parrot this regularly. By claiming that you're being smeared/slandered/misrepresented you manage to avoid most rational discussions whenever someone disagrees with your ideas.

4/2/2005 8:31:12 PM

ding ding ding

4/2/2005 8:31:56 PM

^please

Go back and read this thread. See how many times mr. joshua tries to have a rational discussion about illegal immigration issues. Then see how many times he resorts to smear tactics and suggesting I'm a racist, or suggesting others who oppose illegal immigration are racists, etc.


[Edited on April 2, 2005 at 8:45 PM. Reason : 4]

4/2/2005 8:38:04 PM

^ PLEASE

Quit being such a whacko.

4/2/2005 8:40:18 PM

Quote :

"Quit being such a whacko."

Now there's an attempt at a rational discussion.

4/2/2005 8:41:41 PM

well..... how else should I put it?

You're fuckin' nuts.

4/2/2005 8:42:41 PM

Please explain WHY you think I'm "nuts." Where's the evidence?

[Edited on April 2, 2005 at 8:46 PM. Reason : 1]

4/2/2005 8:45:11 PM

i hadnt read any of this damn thread but i know that in my town about half the population in the summer is mexican and almost all are illegal

cant understand a damn word they say

4/2/2005 8:45:20 PM

SWEET!!

"MMP is a citizens' neighborhood watch along our border"
http://www.minutemanproject.com

4/2/2005 10:06:57 PM

Quote :

"Go back and read this thread. See how many times mr. joshua tries to have a rational discussion about illegal immigration issues. Then see how many times he resorts to smear tactics and suggesting I'm a racist, or suggesting others who oppose illegal immigration are racists, etc."

I've got a better idea. Reread this thread. Compare tha number of times that you claim to be the victim of "smear/slander tactics" with the number of times that you call other users "moron". Seems pretty hypocritical, doesn't it? You could even go so far as to compare it to the number of times that I call you a "moron", you may be surprised by who has run the greater slander campaign.

Basically, whenever someone comes up with a rational argument, you become frustrated and call them a moron. This brings a quick end to any rational discussion and once again proves your maturity level.

Quote :

"Mr. "I love illegal immigration, I love the police state" Joshua."

Once again you end rational discussion by clearly misrepresenting my position.

You habitually use the tactics that you claim others use against you. The greatest difference is that you actually use them. The majority of the time that you yell out "slander/smear/misrepresent" its a great exageration of the true situation. You have made an art out of painting yourself as a victim in order to avoid having to defend your claims.

4/3/2005 6:38:07 PM

Quote :

"Basically, whenever someone comes up with a rational argument, you become frustrated and call them a moron"

Completely not true.

I have seldom ever called someone a moron on these message boards. You are one of the very few (if not the only person). And let me remind you that you paraded around here calling me a moron before I called you a moron. The reason I did so was because you, among all others who have strongly opposed me here on these boards, have posted some of the most ridiculous and stupid things in your attacks against me. I've said it before, and I'll say it now. When I call you a moron, it's not slander or a smear tactic, because it is just stating a fact.

Quote :

"You have made an art out of painting yourself as a victim in order to avoid having to defend your claims"

Riiiiight.

And exactly what claims have I not defended? Give me an example from this thread.


[Edited on April 3, 2005 at 10:25 PM. Reason : 2]

4/3/2005 10:20:38 PM

Quote :

"And exactly what claims have I not defended? Give me an example from this thread."

OK. Just from page 3. Check out my posts on 2/24, 3/29, 3/30, 3/31, and 4/1. These were valid claims and counter-arguments that were not aimed at slandering or misrepresenting, yet somehow you didn't even attempt to defend your ridiculous claims.

This won't end the discussion of course. You will now post an excuse for not posting, probably even going so far as to slander me.

Quote :

"When I call you a moron, it's not slander or a smear tactic, because it is just stating a fact. "

Slandering me because I have a dissenting opinion? I thought that only those of us who had been brainwashed by the elitist jew media could do that.

4/4/2005 12:22:16 AM

Quote :

"Check out my posts on 2/24, 3/29, 3/30, 3/31, and 4/1. These were valid claims and counter-arguments that were not aimed at slandering or misrepresenting, yet somehow you didn't even attempt to defend your ridiculous claims. "

TOTAL NONSENSE. I have defended my claims. Nowhere in those posts did I "not attempt to defend my claims." To the contrary, I was defending many of my claims in those posts.

Quote :

"Slandering me because I have a dissenting opinion? I thought that only those of us who had been brainwashed by the elitist jew media could do that."

More nonsense. YOU are the one parading around here calling me a racist, just because I oppose illegal immigration...and now you are trying to make yourself out to be a victim here? I haven't slandered you, but you have made great efforts to slander me. Classic case of a true slanderer accusing others of the exact thing he is doing.


[Edited on April 4, 2005 at 9:58 AM. Reason : 3]

4/4/2005 9:53:47 AM

Quote :

"Total nonsense. I have defended my claims. Nowhere in those posts did I "not attempt to defend my claims.""

Reread page 3. I would say that ignoring it when I point out holes in your ideas counts as not attempting to defend your claims.

Quote :

"I haven't slandered you, but you have made great efforts to slander me."

1) count the number of times that you slander me
2) compare to my total
3) tell us all who the winner is

Quote :

"Classic case of a true slanderer accusing others of the exact thing he is doing."

Please explain how this line does not apply to you.

[Edited on April 4, 2005 at 9:58 AM. Reason : ]

4/4/2005 9:57:25 AM

Minutemen Report Stops 18 Illegals At Border
http://www.rense.com/general63/ood.htm

4/4/2005 10:08:24 AM

I'll assume that your quick attempt to change the subject is a passive admission of defeat, little buddy.

4/4/2005 3:04:58 PM

Quote :

"I'll assume that your quick attempt to change the subject is a passive admission of defeat, little buddy"

hahahahaha...you wish

You're totally delusional. You repeat the SAME things you've said before (which I've already addressed) or make MORE bogus/ridiculous arguments and claims, yet just because I haven't bothered to respond to arguments you've already made or more misrepresentations and nonsense, you think you have "won" the argument. Some claims and arguments are so stupid, they don't need a response. As I've stated before several times, you seem to think that 'he who posts last wins'. How pathetic.

I don't have all day to respond to you repeating the same questions and comments OVER AND OVER, or to constantly correct your numerous and continuous misrepresentations. I've got better things to do than argue with a moron like you ALL DAY LONG. It's like arguing with a child. I also know that it is NOT he who posts last who wins.

Carry on.


[Edited on April 4, 2005 at 3:27 PM. Reason : 3]

4/4/2005 3:22:25 PM

Oh my gosh! Slander! I never expected that!

Well done salisburyboy, you truly had a mighty ace up your sleeve.

Grow up, buddy.

[Edited on April 4, 2005 at 3:33 PM. Reason : .]

4/4/2005 3:27:52 PM

illegal immigrants take away the jobs of the lower classes, which is often made out to be 100% african american by organizations that help the lower class (and by lower class, they mean minorities)

so allowing illegal immigrants is a little racist

4/5/2005 10:58:09 PM

Minutemen catch 141 illegals so far: New Mexico official hopes to expand citizen volunteer project to 2nd state
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43664

Quote :

"In its second day of operations, the civilian volunteer Minuteman Project claimed to have aided the Border Patrol in the apprehension of 141 illegal aliens along the Arizona border and deterred many more from attempting to cross from Mexico. With the project gaining favorable attention, a city official from New Mexico announced he would like to expand the project to his state."

4/6/2005 3:08:36 PM

^ salisburyboy, are you posting something positive? Thats UNHEARD OF!

4/6/2005 10:41:32 PM

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?c=MGArticle&cid=1031782007780&pagename=WSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle&path=!nationworld&s=1037645509161

Quote :

"Volunteer patrol cuts Mexican migration Illegal crossings over Arizona border are reduced by half THE ASSOCIATED PRESS AGUA PRIETA, Mexico The number of Mexican migrants trying to sneak into the U.S.across the Arizona border has dropped by half since hundreds of U.S. civilians began guarding the area earlier this week, say Mexican officials assigned to protect their citizens. But that does not mean that the migrants have given up. Most remain determined to enter the United States and say they will find other places to cross."

Wow.

4/8/2005 2:19:59 PM

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050405/dctu073.html?.v=1

Quote :

"Illegal Immigration Costs Texans $4.7 Billion a Year Finds New Study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) Tuesday April 5, 4:23 pm ET WASHINGTON, April 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Mass illegal immigration is costing Texas more than $4.65 billion a year finds a new report released today by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Texans, examines the fiscal costs being borne by the state to provide education, health care and incarceration for an illegal alien population now estimated to exceed 1.5 million."

4/8/2005 2:39:52 PM

America has a domestic labor shortage and therefore needs millions of illegals?
http://projectusa.org/ezine/2005/04-06-AGCA.html

Quote :

"A Washington DC construction supervisor told Jerry Kammer of the San Diego Tribune that since the surge in illegal immigration from Central America to the Washington, DC area began roughly 20 years ago, the pay for installing 4 x 8 panels has dropped from $4.50 per panel to $3.00. After adjusting for inflation, that's a stunning 60% decline in wages. And over the last 20 years, while these already low-end jobs were in their 60% freefall, what did we hear from the Wall Street Journal, Alan Greenspan, and the immigration lawyer industry? Why, America has been in the grip of a desperate labor shortage this whole time! With the possible exception of newspaper editorialists, however, most Americans understand that even if there were such things as labor shortages, wages wouldn't plummet while one was occurring. If it were really true we'd run out of Americans, that all across the land stacks of 4 x 8 panels were rotting on the ground because there was no one available to nail them up, then the wages offered to someone to get him to install the panels would tend to rise, not plummet. "

No, there is no shortage of labor. The truth is that big companies prefer drastically lower wages to increase profits, and nearly all companies must break the law and hire illegals in order to compete because the federal government will not enforce laws against hiring illegals. This results in drastically lower wages in many areas of industry (including construction and manufacturing jobs that once used to pay well). Unless this massive invasion of illegal immigration is stopped and reversed, America will descend into a third-world economy and there will be very few "jobs Americans won't do" because the wages in nearly all jobs will have been slashed to the point of just enough to survive.


[Edited on April 11, 2005 at 9:57 AM. Reason : 4]

4/11/2005 9:51:24 AM

You have yet to positively link lower wages to illegal immigrants. The article states that since 20 years ago, prices have gone down and illegal immigration has gone up. This offers absolutely no proof of correlation. This is the same logic that would allow me to positevely link ice cream sales and drowning deaths.

Of course, some of this might be a result of the drop in commodity prices that lasted from 1982-1999, but isn't it just easier to blame the illegals?

4/11/2005 10:20:27 AM

Quote :

"and there will be very few "jobs Americans won't do" "

Correction...

There will be very MANY "jobs Americans won't do" in the new third-world America.

4/11/2005 10:42:04 AM

Is there no proof besides a very weak correlation?

4/11/2005 10:47:43 AM

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43754

Quote :

"Mexican army escorts border drug-runners Minutemen, U.S. officials say military directs illegals to avoid Arizona patrols April 11, 2005 © 2005 WorldNetDaily.com WASHINGTON – The Mexican army is escorting those attempting to cross over the U.S. border illegally – including known drug-runners – to areas not patrolled by the Minuteman Project near Naco, Ariz., say Border Patrol sources and other officials including a U.S. congressman. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus, denounced the action by the Mexican military and called on President Bush to do the same. "President Bush should publicly denounce Mexico's latest act to curb U.S. law," said Tancredo. "The president of Mexico is threatening to sue any member of the Minutemen who have contact with a Mexican national, threatening to take the U.S. into the International Court of Justice at the Hague over the passage of Prop 200 in Arizona, and is providing transportation to Mexican nationals trying to sneak into the U.S. One could say he is acting in the best interest of his nation. Isn't it unfortunate we cannot say the same thing about President Bush?" "

[Edited on April 14, 2005 at 3:13 PM. Reason : 2]

4/14/2005 3:11:23 PM

^ Whats weird is that I couldn't find any mention of that in the real news.

4/14/2005 3:17:40 PM

How Is the United States Being Destroyed?
http://www.rense.com/general64/how.htm

Quote :

"How is the United States being destroyed? "It is being destroyed deliberately by the leadership of elitists in high places," Appleton said, "whose long range goal has been to bring about "The New World Order," made popular by President George H.W. Bush in 1990. Most people have yet to find out what that means. To confuse the issue still more, the term is being gradually replaced by "Globalism." This is bad news for Americans, because it means replacing our free and Sovereign Land of Liberty with a Socialist One World Dictatorship, pieces of which are already in place. Like the Frog in Hot Water, story, it has been heating up so slowly, that few realize our dilemma. They remain in ignorance, courtesy of the controlled news media, whose familiar voices never expose what the Globalists are doing to us." ... What is their immediate plan called FTAA? "This deal has been quietly cooking since 1994 in Globalist circles," Appleton said. "It is called the Free Trade Areas of the Americas. But like the European Union, it has little to do with free trade. Rather, it is about to merge the USA with all other 33 countries of the Americas in a new monstrosity, which will swallow up them all. It is expected to be called The American Union--like the Soviet Union. It presupposes a new governing body to take over the Western Hemisphere. A document entitled "The Declaration of Quebec City," signed after their third conference in April of 2001, shows in Globalist/UN lingo that it involves far more than "Free Trade." It will mean the end of the USA as we have known it, courtesy of our beloved US Congress and Senate who have very few who can be counted on to stand by the Constitution." "

[Edited on April 14, 2005 at 3:22 PM. Reason : 1]

4/14/2005 3:18:56 PM

I would have put that in the TYRANNY - POLICE STATE COMING TO AMERICA thread, but thats just my personal opinion.

Which makes me wonder, do you find this crap online, and then think to yourself "I wonder which thread would best be aided by this piece of breaking news....?"

So, free trade in any context is a bad thing? That seems awfully silly to me. Why would the US want to take over the rest of the hemisphere? What good would that serve? If you actually try to answer that (which you probably won't) please explain it with real reasons, not some shit about the egos of the NWO members.

4/14/2005 3:26:18 PM

Mainstream media smear tactics against Minuteman Project...

Grotesque Media Distortion Of Minutemen At Border
http://www.rense.com/general64/minn.htm

Government promoting illegal immigration...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20050414-115247-2595r

Quote :

"Authorities free 1 million aliens amid proceedings By Stephen Dinan THE WASHINGTON TIMES April 15, 2005 One million people facing immigration proceedings have been released into the general population, the government's chief of detention and removal told the Senate yesterday , prompting some Republicans to say the Bush administration is "not serious" about the problem. "We have a million individuals who are in some phase of immigration proceedings released," said Victor X. Cerda, the acting director of detention and removal operations for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). He said of those people, 465,000 are fugitive aliens who have been ordered deported. About 80,000 of those are criminal aliens who have committed an offense in addition to immigration violations, but he couldn't provide an exact number."

[Edited on April 16, 2005 at 11:35 AM. Reason : 2]

4/16/2005 11:31:06 AM

4/18/2005 12:38:11 AM

Pro-Illegal Alien Group Confronts Minutemen In Arizona
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/news/041605_nw_minute.html

Quote :

"Apr. 16 (ABC7) — A border skirmish is brewing between an immigrant rights group in San Francisco and the Minutemen in Arizona. The Minutemen are a semi-armed civilian group that is patrolling the border, trying to stop people from crossing illegally. Protesters from San Francisco are driving to the area Saturday morning to confront the Minutemen. They say the militia is nothing more than a hate group. The Minutemen say they're doing a public service. Chris Simcox, Minutemen founder: "We're presenting a model that Homeland Security should be: setting up posts and creating a deterrent for crime in the first place." The immigrant rights group, Deporten A La Migra, says they hope to meet with Arizona's attorney general to demand that the Minutemen be stopped. "

Oh, so those who want to protect our border are a "hate group"? Typical smear tactics, much like those used in this thread by mr. joshua.


[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 11:13 AM. Reason : 7]

4/18/2005 11:08:25 AM

Yes, because salisburyboy is soooo far above smear and slander.

I looked up Deporten A La Migra. Even though they claim to be a group aiming to protect the human rights of immigrants and have a history of doing so, they are a actually an NWO organization trying to discredit vigilante militias.



Look at the sign! My spanish is a bit rusty, but I believe that the translation is "THIS IS THE NEW WORLD." Thats exactly the kind of absolutely circumstantial evidence that I need as proof!!

4/18/2005 11:21:08 AM

acutally, the spanish translation of that sign is: "this is our land" but good guess.

4/18/2005 11:23:09 AM

4/18/2005 11:26:45 AM

My bad, I confused "nuestro" with "nuevo".

Regardless, they are still an evil front organization for the Jews.

4/18/2005 11:28:20 AM

Illegal aliens get top aircraft mechanic jobs
http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?id=76457

Quote :

"GREENSBORO, N.C. - About 3½ years after 9-11, more than two dozen alleged illegal aliens - including four from so-called countries of special interest for terrorist activity - got jobs maintaining commercial jetliners in North Carolina. "

More "jobs Americans won't do."

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 11:55 AM. Reason : 3]

4/18/2005 11:37:34 AM

Massive Illegal Immigration is ripping the nation apart
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty50.htm

Quote :

"“President Bush is ripping this nation apart,” Ed Nelson, director of the U.S. Border Control said. “There is no question that, unless he and Congress change their views on open borders, mass immigration, exporting jobs and importing "willing workers," our soldiers may soon be fighting a war on a third continent, North America.” According to every poll taken in the past few years, more than 80 percent of the American people oppose illegal immigration. This figure includes all races, colors and nationalities. Yet, the President ignores the wishes, hopes and aspirations of a majority of Americans. “Mr. Bush and the Republican Party deserve most of the blame for our national crisis,” Nelson said from his http://www.usbc.org headquarters. “For four years, this Republican Administration, in control of the White House, the House of Representatives and the Senate, is responsible for holding the borders open, exposing Americans to terrorism, uncontrolled immigration, increased crime and Third World diseases.” "

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 10:23 PM. Reason : 2]

4/18/2005 10:20:23 PM

Minuteman Project expanding to 4 states: Civilian monitors will also target employers that hire illegal aliens
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43865

Quote :

"© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com The Minuteman Project in Arizona announced yesterday it will expand its operations, putting pressure on employers of illegals and setting up civilian border watches in four states. Project spokesman Grey Deacon told WorldNetDaily the operation has been flooded with calls and e-mails from thousands of citizens across the country volunteering to serve. Currently hundreds of volunteers, many legally carrying guns and waving flags, are keeping watch around the clock until the end of the month along a 23-mile stretch of border. The volunteers reportedly are intimidating illegal aliens with their presence and alerting the Border Patrol via cell phones or radios when they see people crossing."

[Edited on April 19, 2005 at 11:20 AM. Reason : 2]

4/19/2005 11:17:56 AM

I haven't read a single post of this entire thread.

I can still say with much confidence, that this is all bullshit.

4/19/2005 11:19:09 AM

Border Patrol union supports Minutemen: Says it has had no complaints about monitors, blasts Bush over amnesty
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43859

Quote :

"© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com The largest local union of Border Patrol agents in the country has declared its support for the Minuteman Project in Arizona, while at the same time slamming both the American Civil Liberties Union and President Bush. According to its website (http://www.local2544.org/), the U.S. Border Patrol Local 2544, which covers the Tucson sector of the agency, the volunteers involved in the border-monitoring Minuteman Project have been nothing but supportive. "

[Edited on April 19, 2005 at 11:26 AM. Reason : 3]

4/19/2005 11:22:37 AM

yawn.

4/19/2005 12:50:40 PM

Quote :

"yawn"

yawn

4/19/2005 12:54:45 PM

Mexico, U.S. to be 'integrated'?: Fox's foreign secretary envisions cooperative future, slams Minutemen
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43879

Quote :

"April 19, 2005 © 2005 WorldNetDaily.com Mexico's foreign secretary says he expects Mexico and the U.S. will one day be "integrated," and he blasted the Minuteman Project, calling for prosecution of the citizen border monitors. ...The official added he hopes the group and its members are prosecuted."

Is it getting clearer now?
U.S.-Mexico "integration"?!
Prosecute the Minutemen?!

[Edited on April 20, 2005 at 9:47 AM. Reason : 1]

4/20/2005 9:46:53 AM