Biden's gaffes are so many--and so informative and entertaining--that they deserve their own thread. And the gaffes were just clogging up the Obama credibility thread.

The latest:

Biden says 'everyone guessed wrong' on jobs number

Quote :

"WASHINGTON – Vice President Joe Biden said Sunday that 'everyone guessed wrong' on the impact of the economic stimulus, but he defended the administration's spending designed to combat rising joblessness."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090614/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_biden_stimulus

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31353575#31353575



Days without a Joe "Rhetorical Flourishes" Biden foot-in-mouth incident: 0

6/15/2009 7:55:36 PM

didn't you already make this thread?

6/15/2009 8:11:35 PM

it seems to me like the last few "gaffes" you've noted have been, actually, slivers of honesty that we're not used to hearing from any Administration. Now, that in and of itself may be a gaffe (i.e. who knows if it's their policy to try to be honest), but really..... is this the best you can do?

6/15/2009 8:16:13 PM

you're the only one that cares about something that nobody should care about at all

and there is nothing funny about that picture, at all

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 8:20 PM. Reason : for serious]

6/15/2009 8:16:55 PM

NO WAY

the pic is the anchor of the argument!

6/15/2009 8:26:42 PM

The old man really does have dementia.

6/15/2009 8:42:11 PM

who, Biden or hooksaw?
or both?

6/15/2009 8:53:09 PM

hooksaw

6/15/2009 9:24:08 PM

Quote :

"didn't you already make this thread? "

6/15/2009 9:26:42 PM

Quote :

"SLIVERS OF HONESTY"

FWIW, this should be a new band name--if it isn't already.

Okay let's break down just the three words of Biden's latest gaffe: "everyone guessed wrong."

1. Was it really "everyone"? Really?! I recall many saying the stimulus wouldn't deliver as promised.

Republicans Criticize Stimulus Bill

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123353300053237551.html

2. So, the Obama administration simply "guessed"? Apparently so--since one of Obama's own economic advisors can't confirm his "guesstimates":

Quote :

"Guesstimates Obama has said the stimulus package has saved or created 150,000 jobs already and continues to pay off. Those numbers appear to be elastic, though: On a Sunday-morning news show, his senior advisor David Axelrod said the plan 'has produced hundreds of thousands of jobs.' Any figure involves guesswork, the administration has conceded. [Jared] Bernstein, who is Biden's economic advisor, said in an interview that the president's citation of 150,000 is 'an estimate' based partly on what the economy would look like in the absence of the stimulus package. But Bernstein said he could not break down how many of those jobs were created versus saved. 'That's a division we're not able to make at a level of accuracy we're comfortable with,' he said. Republicans are arguing that the stimulus package has failed."

http://tinyurl.com/mvvssm

3. And finally, Biden admits--in a "sliver of honesty"--that they got it "wrong"? Yes. Well, in yet another infamous foot-in-mouth incident, Biden stated that no matter what they do there's "still a 30 percent chance we're going to get it wrong."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCqqlYTi57A

Now, some of you can continue to post not-so-witty comments or you can deal with the fact that Biden is a doofus of epic proportions, a walking disaster. I'm guessing it'll be the former.

6/15/2009 9:32:57 PM

Quote :

"BOLD QUOTE LINK"

6/15/2009 9:34:46 PM

Quote :

"IT'LL BE THE FORMER"

6/15/2009 9:36:24 PM

looks like hooksaw is back to his old ways. sooner or later he'll be making up juvenile nicknames for us all again. soapbox was so much better when you weren't here.

6/15/2009 9:41:16 PM

Welp.

At least now it's the VP running around making stupid comments while the President runs the country, instead of the other way around.

6/15/2009 9:52:34 PM

^ i know, right?

6/15/2009 10:08:33 PM

^^haha

6/15/2009 10:25:27 PM

Im just curious

How many people dont even read a hooksaw post anymore if it is in the classic hooksaw format

I know I sure as hell dont

6/15/2009 10:30:29 PM

I just got done trying to spend eight years defending gaffes from members of the other party (prominently including the President). It would be hypocritical of me to start blasting the other party for having one guy who does the same.

But please, don't let that stop anybody else.

6/15/2009 10:34:09 PM

So, Joe "The Human Gaffe Machine" Biden thinks train tunnels are for cars, doesn't know the Web site "number" for the recovery he's supposedly overseeing, and other fun stuff but I'm the problem? You're right--Biden is "real man of genius":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toorZ2X8PyE

6/16/2009 12:42:27 AM

Did you not already make this thread? Yes or no?

6/16/2009 12:45:34 AM

^ Not that I recall. The search function does work, you know.

FWIW, I was actually trying to unclog the Obama credibility thread. Biden creates a lot of material.

6/16/2009 12:52:19 AM

I wouldn't say "a lot". I'd say Bush 43 had a higher gaffe per day ratio. Using that as the scale he is doing well.

message_topic.aspx?topic=556217

oops. This is not you.

[Edited on June 16, 2009 at 12:58 AM. Reason : .]

6/16/2009 12:56:53 AM

Quote :

"Joe sometimes engages in rhetorical flourishes."

--Barack Obama

6/16/2009 1:09:58 AM

ok ok

6/16/2009 1:35:23 AM

I don't think anyone here other than the conservative hacks are going to take this thread seriously. The gaffe frequency is just too low to be concerned about.

6/16/2009 7:19:51 AM

has it been that long?

bump

10/20/2009 12:25:11 PM

eh

[Edited on October 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM. Reason : /]

10/20/2009 12:27:12 PM

Quote :

"Well, it's a depression. It's a depression for millions of Americans."

--VP Joe Doofus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct7TGWGWYzk

VP Biden: For the millions of Americans without jobs, the U.S. economy is in a 'depression' - ABC News
October 19, 2009

Quote :

"In recent weeks, Vice President Joe Biden has said that the U.S. economy has been in what he calls 'a great recession' and has stressed that it is not a depression, echoing the general consensus of the nation's economists. But today the vice president took some liberty with the economic terms to illustrate the continuing struggles of the unemployed in the United States. For the millions of Americans without a job, 'it's a depression,' Biden said."

Quote :

"A recession is generally defined as a downturn in economic activity, usually marked by two or more consecutive quarters of declining GDP, and is less severe than a depression, by economists' standards. Just two weeks ago, Biden said that he calls the current state of the economy 'the great recession' because it's 'the single worst economic circumstance' the United States has been in, 'short of a depression.' On Oct. 2, Biden said that 'fears of a depression have been replaced by forecasts of recovery' and on Sept. 3 Biden said that 'instead of talking about the beginning of a depression, we're talking about the end of a recession eight months after taking office.'"

http://tinyurl.com/yj9dfcj

[Edited on October 20, 2009 at 2:05 PM. Reason : Days without a Joe "Rhetorical Flourishes" Biden foot-in-mouth incident: 0]

10/20/2009 2:03:47 PM

I like the obsession with the "rhetorical flourishes" term. As though Barack Obama were going to say, "Joe Biden occasionally says retarded things."

10/20/2009 2:04:53 PM

It's not an "obsession"--it's Obama term. I just borrowed it.

Quote :

"As though Barack Obama were going to say, 'Joe Biden occasionally frequently says retarded things.'"

Fixed.

10/20/2009 2:07:41 PM

I'm glad I don't hate quoting myself

Quote :

"At least now it's the VP running around making stupid comments while the President runs the country, instead of the other way around."

Al Gore (internet), Dan Quayle, Gerald Ford... It's not like it's unusual to have a gaffe-friendly Vice President. I remember being taught that at one time it was considered a good position for someone who you DIDN'T want to eventually run for the Presidency, but that teacher could have just been spouting off.

10/20/2009 2:24:41 PM

^^^^I actually agree with Biden, here. It pretty much is a depression, and it's going to get worse. I think in Biden's case, though, he has no idea what caused the depression. I'm sure he's convinced that the free market and capitalism caused all this. Luckily, the people that didn't see this recession/depression coming are the ones that are still at the wheel, driving full speed towards the cliff.

It'll be interesting to see if they'll spin this as a "gaffe." I see hooksaw already has. Do you think this is just a recession? Do you think it's getting better, or worse? I understand people don't want to use the word depression, because they'd rather be willfully ignorant. It's looking like more of a depression every month, though. Real unemployment is something like 20%. Jobs aren't being created. Production is dwindling, and it isn't coming back. We're paying back debt with more debt. Are people really still under the delusion that everything is about to get better?

[Edited on October 20, 2009 at 2:32 PM. Reason : ]

10/20/2009 2:31:02 PM

Quote :

"I remember being taught that at one time it was considered a good position for someone who you DIDN'T want to eventually run for the Presidency, but that teacher could have just been spouting off."

That has been the case several times. It has a way of backfiring. They gave the spot to Teddy Roosevelt in order to get him out of the way, then McKinley got shot and the rest is history.

What's depressing is the extremely short list of vice presidents who were selected because they could competently replace the president in the event of his death.

10/20/2009 2:33:45 PM

^^ I am now convinced that what you "think" has no relationship to reality whatosoever.

1. Define "depression."

2. Tell Newsweek that we're in a depression:

The Recession is Over
Jul 25, 2009

http://www.newsweek.com/id/208633/page/1

3. Tell Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman (even though I often disagree with him) that we're in a depression:

Krugman: Recession Is Over

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8176904

4. Tell Obama that we're in a depression:

Obama: Recession's worst may be over
August 8, 2009

Quote :

"'We've begun to put the brakes on this recession and … the worst may be behind us,' Obama said in his weekly radio and Internet address Saturday."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/08/obama-recessions-worst-may-be-behind-us/

10/20/2009 2:46:07 PM

I like how Jon Stewart put it in his book. By making it into office the Vice President has already accomplished his only real job, "balancing the ticket." At that point everything else is just gravy. Sure he'll have to cast the deciding vote in the Senate, but that's rare and if they need him they'll call him.

Other than that, it's just finding crap to stay busy with and if you're still hoping to be politically viable it involves keeping your name in the news. Some VPs seem to think "comic relief" should also be on the menu.



[Edited on October 20, 2009 at 2:52 PM. Reason : hooksaw caught a typo, I got rid of it]

10/20/2009 2:49:49 PM

"By virtual"?

10/20/2009 2:51:40 PM

Quote :

"I am now convinced that what you "think" has no relationship to reality whatosoever."

I still don't know what point you're trying to make with this line of thinking. You just find articles, post them, slap a emoticon to the end of the post, and call it a day. I'm trying to provide useful commentary on current events.

Quote :

"1. Define "depression.""

From Wikipedia:

Quote :

"Considered a rare and extreme form of recession, a depression is characterized by its length, and by abnormal increases in unemployment, falls in the availability of credit, shrinking output and investment, numerous bankruptcies, reduced amounts of trade and commerce, as well as highly volatile relative currency value fluctuations, mostly devaluations. Price deflation, financial crisis and bank failures are also common elements of a depression."

Sounds about right. If we're not already in a depression, by that definition, we certainly will be soon.

Quote :

"Tell Newsweek that we're in a depression: The Recession is Over Jul 25, 2009 http://www.newsweek.com/id/208633/page/1"

I would, if given the opportunity. The article basically makes the point that because certain government numbers indicate a recovery, and we're not losing jobs as fast as expected, and sales of certain items have increased, we're in a recovery. We're not recovering, though. We're still losing a ton of jobs every month. Housing might recover slightly due to the bailouts, but soon it'll dip even further than it did the first time. Government unemployment numbers that show a decrease in unemployment don't include people that have given up looking for a job or had to get a minimum wage part time job to pay the bills.

Hilariously, it's not just "The Recession is Over." It's "The Recession is Over - but not for you, yet."

Quote :

"Tell Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman (even though I often disagree with him) that we're in a depression: Krugman: Recession Is Over http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8176904"

Yes, the oh so prestigious Nobel Prize. If you're going to believe Krugman on the future of the economy, then I'm sure you'll believe anything that helps you make your point.

Quote :

"Tell Obama that we're in a depression"

Again, I'd like to. The fact that you're looking to Obama for an honest assessment of the economy speaks volumes.

Keep believing that recovery is on the way, though. Hopefully that's a comforting thought, for you. I'll maintain that recovery is not on the way, because we haven't corrected the problems that caused the recession to begin with. In this country, the citizens have spent money they didn't have, and the government has spent money it doesn't have. 70% of our GDP is consumer spending. If we don't make the necessary changes soon, the economy will be in ruin, and it won't matter if you agreed with me in this thread or not.

10/20/2009 3:13:29 PM

^ Define "recovery."

10/20/2009 3:19:20 PM

Quote :

"Economic recovery, the end of a recession or depression, marked by renewed growth after the slump in the business cycle."

Any growth currently taking place is overshadowed by huge losses in production and employment. So, we're not in a recovery...we're in whatever the opposite of that is. An economic downturn, if you will. And, if we're already in a recession, and it's getting worse...what's the end result? A really bad recession? What would you call that?

10/20/2009 3:30:09 PM

I understand the point you're trying to make, but what you call a gaffe, I call figurative language. Are public officials not allowed to use metaphors anymore? Would it have helped if he said [For the millions of Americans without a job,] "it's like a depression"?

He pretty clearly was not trying to say we're in a depression. He was commenting on what the experience of people who are still unemployed must be like, and my take is that he essentially is saying it doesn't matter what terminology you call the economic state of the country--it's just "really bad" for millions of people right now, which is still true.

I haven't watched the youtube video (at work), so I have no idea if it places the quote in its actual context, or what that full context is. I'd reserve full judgment until I see or hear the full quote.

10/20/2009 3:47:50 PM

I dont think this is nearly a big of a deal as some are making it to be. Its clearly in context. You could argue if he should be saying it at all, I dunno.

Where was he speaking? These idiots are on tv more than Everyone Loves Raymond.

10/20/2009 3:53:33 PM

We're still in a recession, but we have to pretend that we aren't, because there's a large psychological component to the financial markets.

[Edited on October 20, 2009 at 4:06 PM. Reason : ]

10/20/2009 4:06:07 PM

^What will pretending that we aren't in a recession do, though? When people thought we weren't in a recession, they racked up a ton of debt and went bankrupt. Or, even if they didn't, they spent money instead of saving it. Is that the kind of behavior that will get us back on the right track? I don't think so. People need to start saving money, not pretend that there's nothing wrong. Saving and production needs to take place. Savings rates need to increase sharply.

The stock market does depend on consumer confidence, so you have a point as far as that goes. Unfortunately, the stock market is not a good indicator of economic prosperity. And, even if it was, it's measured in terms of (devalued) dollars. For any nominal gains the stock market may be making, it'll crash even harder in the future.

10/20/2009 4:16:04 PM

right, if we wanted to run the economy on what the financials do....then why not cut taxes moron? Im sure if you support pretending/lying then why not support something that will actually cause REAL growth/up swing in the market.

10/20/2009 4:19:46 PM

^^ People have been saving money, that's part of the current problems. Our economy, somewhere along the mid-90s, switched from being driven by manufacturing to being driven by consumer spending.

If we have the perception that things are going to be okay, people will start to spend money a little more. This is at best a stop-gap measure.

You're right that this is not sustainable, but the only option is an even worse recession while we/our corporations figure out how to make money without forcing people or themselves into debt.

And regarding production, what production are you talking about? No company is going to do any production here, in this economy, when it's still cheaper to do it off shores. We can't rely on production anymore. We have to start "exporting ideas," as that new GE commercial has been saying (something along those lines).

Apple, for example, just announced their most profitable quarter in their history. We're a fairly luxurious country, and this luxury affords us the ability to focus on innovation and creativity. We should be letting the 3rd world worry about where their next meals are coming from as they manufacture our goods, while we tell them what to manufacture.

[Edited on October 20, 2009 at 4:25 PM. Reason : ]

10/20/2009 4:22:54 PM

I've never understood why everyone is so scared of the word "recession." Presumably the people at the top of the big institutions are reasonably well-educated, intelligent people who can tell for themselves what's going on. But as soon as the president or somebody says "We're in a recession," they go, "JESUS CHRIST, NO!!!" and start hurling themselves out of buildings.

I suppose we may be in a depression. I don't think we are, and I know it's too early to call it that. The shit hit the fan, what, two years ago? So far, not dramatically longer or more severe than other recessions/crises/whatever. The unemployment figures are better than what they were in the early 80's.

10/20/2009 4:28:56 PM

^^

Quote :

"And regarding production, what production are you talking about? No company is going to do any production here, in this economy, when it's still cheaper to do it off shores."

WTF are you babbling about? Do you even know? Many companies have had to increase production because they lowered or depleted their inventories.


[Edited on October 20, 2009 at 4:33 PM. Reason : .]

10/20/2009 4:29:57 PM

^look, idiot:



Notice anything interesting about the utilization there, going back 3 decades?

10/20/2009 4:35:08 PM

Quote :

"We should be letting the 3rd world worry about where their next meals are coming from as they manufacture our goods, while we tell them what to manufacture. "

Yeah, Fuck the Third WOrld.

**spits on brown person**

10/20/2009 4:35:59 PM

^^ STFU, you stooge.

US industrial production rises more than expected in September on higher auto, steel output
10/16/09

Quote :

"WASHINGTON — Output at America's factories, mines and utilities rises for the third straight month, but some economists say the manufacturing growth that has helped lead the nascent economic recovery may slow as federal stimulus programs are phased out."

Quote :

"But steel and other sectors also posted gains, and General Electric reported separately Friday that its industrial businesses grew in the third quarter."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/economy/ap/industrial-production-rises-more-than-expected-in-september-on-higher-auto-steel-output-64487467.html

10/20/2009 4:40:14 PM