I have all three size frames of .40 Glocks.
The.......... 22.........23
capacity.... 15.........13

The 22 is about 1/2'' taller and 3/4'' longer than the 23.
As far as concealability goes, the 23 is a lot easier, due to the length of the grip.

The biggest difference for most is the distance between the finger groves. They both offer a full grip.
If you would like to try them out, just send me a PM to work out a time to meet at the range.

7/23/2009 11:33:31 PM

Quote :

"does anyone know if the written warning is put into the system?"

I'm not exactly sure. E-cites get submitted to AOC. Hand written, on agency forms; I do not believe leave the house. Most likely, if you are stopped and given even a citation, that information is not forwarded to the issuing sheriffs office. I could be wrong.

7/24/2009 1:42:40 AM

Quote :

"does anyone know if the written warning is put into the system?"

My impression is yes, because I got pulled over back in the day for having "improper lighting". The cop said he was going to give me a warning because when they pull you over for any violation, no matter how small, they are required to give you one as a record that the stop was legit. He told me straight up that it wasn't a big deal, just go home and take them off.

So the answer is maybe. In any case, I wouldn't worry about it.

7/24/2009 6:55:11 AM

are there 9mm conversion barrels that are are inexpensive/reliable for the glock 23? if that's more common/inexpensive for the 22 that would pretty much be my answer right there. what brands of conversion barrels have you used and how did you like them?

thanks for all the info

7/24/2009 11:27:54 AM

^ I have a lone wolf conversion barrel for my G23 so that I can shoot 9mm.
The barrel and 9mm magazine cost me $140. The cost is the same for the 23 and 22 to be converted to 9.

7/24/2009 12:20:37 PM

How is reliability?

People say for the Sigs that conversion barrels are a bad idea b/c the ejector is not made for it.

What are your thoughts on the Glock?

7/24/2009 7:05:49 PM

I know that plenty of Glock barrel swaps work quite well and if you really want to, you can buy a Glock 9mm slide and barrel and then you'll have a fully reliable factory 9mm. Depending on your frame I'd try to get a Glock 17L or at least a Glock 34 barrel though if you get the 9mm slide. If you compare the velocities you'll get with hot +P loads from that 6" Glock 17L barrel to a standard 4" Glock 32 barrel firing .357Sig loads, I think you'll find they're very close. Then consider that standard pressure 9mm ammo is now moving at more like +P velocities from a shorter barrel. So now you've got a very reliable, effective, easily controlled, inexpensive to shoot and highly accurate Glock with all factory parts. Obviously if you go with the Glock 34 barrel instead, you'll lose some velocity but you wont have as much barrel to deal with either.

One thing I do not like about aftermarket barrels is the fact that you give up Glock's polygonal rifling, which I prefer and since I never shoot "non-jacketed" bullets I have no reason to go to something else. The factory Glock 9mm barrels all have fully supported chambers as well, which is not the case with other calibers Glock offers. I've never been a huge idiot about this though and I could care less, but for people that are it's one more selling point of the 9mm Glocks.

Personally, the lack of a fully supported chamber does not bother me at all. I still want a Glock 20SF BADLY because I really like the 10mm and Double Tap has really taken it to its full potential. Then I can also fire their ridiculously hot 9x25mm Dillon loads with a simple barrel swap. The 9x25 Dillon is what the .357Sig should have been from day 1. Unfortunately, they chose to use the short and weak 10mm case, for whatever reason, instead of a full length 10mm case when the .357Sig was made. Stupid ass, small-handed, weak-wristed people forcing us to use that garbage short and weak case son. So anyway, the Glock 20 will put a 90gr Gold Dot out at 2100fps/881ft.lb. with a 6" BarSto 9x25 Dillon barrel.

Oh and one last thing! From my understanding, statistically the most effective handgun load for stopping an attacker is a 125gr JHP fired from a .357 Magnum. Of course, lots of other factors come into play, but it's nice to consider that a 9mm Glock with a 6" barrel should get good +P 124gr JHPs to near what .357 magnum velocities are when they're fired out of shorter barrels (Obviously it's not as close if you're using an 8" barrel to fire your .357 mag loads ). Plus, with a Glock 17 mag you've got 17+1 rounds of it rather than just 5 or 6 rounds of .357mag! Then if you throw on a Pearce magazine extension you'll get that same Glock 17 mag to a capacity of 20+1!! Glock also produces factory 33rd 9mm magazines, which I love. The large 9mm Glocks (Glock 17, 34 and 17L) are great tactical weapons my sons.

7/25/2009 12:56:05 PM

well, I sold my .22 WMR rifle the other day.

I think there's at least one new rifle in my future...but I can't decide what approach I want to take. I have a Remington 700 chambered in 7mm REM that I use as a hunting rifle.

I could hot-rod my hunting rifle. I could keep it as-is and get a really accurate centerfire .22 (or .243). I could sell the big Remington and have a really accurate .308 (or 7mm-08) for both hunting and drilling targets. I could sell the big Remington and have a really accurate centerfire .22 (or .243) for drilling targets, with something like an NEF Handi-Rifle chambered in some 7mm or .30 caliber for hunting, as it should have plenty of accuracy to, say, hit vitals in a deer at 300 yards, which is probably about as far of a shot as I'm likely to take.


I don't really know what use I have for a centerfire .22 (other than it being cheaper and more comfortable to shoot a lot). I've just wanted one for years. Same thing for the single-shot Handi-Rifle...I just kinda want one, and have for a long time.

7/27/2009 2:17:40 AM

then get both?

I'm a minimalist. I don't believe in having tons of guns, but I do believe in having good things and using the hell out of them.

7/27/2009 10:05:58 AM

I kinda want a heavy-barreled varmint rifle. Maybe a Savage 10FP...ton of rifle for the money.

7/27/2009 11:11:27 AM

Quote :

"are there 9mm conversion barrels that are are inexpensive/reliable for the glock 23? if that's more common/inexpensive for the 22 that would pretty much be my answer right there. what brands of conversion barrels have you used and how did you like them? "

Quote :

"How is reliability? People say for the Sigs that conversion barrels are a bad idea b/c the ejector is not made for it. What are your thoughts on the Glock? "

My reliability is about 99.5% with my 9mm conversion barrel and 9mm magazine.
The extractor is a different angle, and the ejector is slightly different, but there is not a real problem. Neither will be hurt by using a different caliber. If you want to truely change the caliber of the weapon, you swap the part and you are done. The conversion barrels are a great way to practice cheaper, or shoot different ammo if you have to. I personally would not carry with my conversion in place.
aftermarket barrel companies are storm lake, lone wolf, and jarvis for the most part. LW is the cheapest and works wonderfully. SL and Jv are more target barrels.

If you get a full size frame, you can get a factory G34 or G17L barrel, if you get the compact or sub model, then you will need to buy aftermarket extended length barrels. This is because the lock lugs on the barrels are different.

7/27/2009 12:25:54 PM

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=134486205

hmmm...

7/27/2009 5:38:23 PM

If you're just looking for a tack-driving varmint gun, get a Rem 700 or a 20"+ AR15 in .223. It's really easy to load for, commercial ammo is readily available, and (with the correct ammo) it will cleanly kill anything up to Deer-size game.

7/28/2009 8:10:43 AM

fuck a clean kill- get you one of these and blow them squirrels the fuck up!

7/28/2009 9:09:37 AM

Rem 700s may be the most overrated guns on the market.
I've yet to see a sporter weight 700 in real life that can shoot MOA with factory loads.
Every redneck that owns one swears it'll do and inch at 100 yards every time.
The only 700s I've seen than shoot well are with handloads but almost any bolt action will shoot MOA with handloads.

You pay the same price for a 700 CDL or BDL than you do a T3 Deluxe, M77, A-Bolt, etc, but the Rem 700 took half the machining to make the rifle and the machining isn't nearly as nice as the others.
If you get a nicer 700 it still doesn't make up for the fact that the extractor is weak, the bolt/lugs/raceways are rough, and the barrel still won't be freefloating.

The heavy barreled 700s shoot well, but you can get the same performance from a cheaper heavy barreled Savage.
You could get a Tikka T3 Varmint for the same price as a heavy 700 and get the same or better accuracy with a better design, fit, and finish.

The 700 is a decent gun. They work. They're just not as good as their reputation.
That's all IMO of course.

/rant

7/28/2009 9:19:11 AM

I'd think really seriously about that F-class rifle, but in addition to drilling paper at the range, I want to be able to take it up in a stand and shoot deer. A "regular" 10FP might really suit my needs better (and do it for half the price).

7/28/2009 9:27:44 AM

Even army snipers are moving away from the 700 action. However those changes take time, either way it's an accurate platform, and has been in use by long range marksmen for quite a while.

7/28/2009 11:54:20 AM

User from another forums in NC made it about Hammer, a mysterious fellow from the Rockies.

7/30/2009 8:16:10 AM

So who will order that Savage rifle for me and make me a good deal on it? I've always dealt with PDHSC, but they just kinda pissed me off. Anyone else that you guys like? Maybe Lawmen's? Places down east are fine, too, as I live in New Bern and are routinely in Havelock/Morehead City/Beaufort/Atlantic Beach, as well as traveling through Kinston/Goldsboro.

7/30/2009 10:25:47 AM

Taurus lifetime warranty ftw

7/30/2009 6:17:51 PM

^Why do you say that? reason I ask is I'm a fan of taurus (I have a 24/7 in 9mm)



^^I always liked dealing with Jim from Jim's gun shop... if you end up going for it and want his contact info, just let me know- I should still have one of his cards in my wallet

7/30/2009 10:49:00 PM

Problem is that Jim is sometimes really bad at contacting you. Someone complained about it on here, I was skeptical till it happened to me.

As the shipper to give you a tracking number and go when it says 'delivered', otherwise you'll have to rely on him.

He's a nice guy AND has very fair pricing, but sometimes his communication could use some improvement.

7/30/2009 11:36:47 PM

^^I have a Taurus PT145 compact .45...the captive recoil spring assembly got slightly broken when my buddy violently was field stripping my PT145...Taurus sent me a new one for free

7/31/2009 12:50:41 AM

Quote :

"I don't really know what use I have for a centerfire .22"

I have a Ruger M77 chambered in .22-250 with a 18x Leupold. Every deer, hell every living thing shot with it has dropped as if it was poleaxed. Great little round, very accurate and fun to shoot. Velocities over 3700 are easy to acheive with 50-grain projectiles.

7/31/2009 12:54:45 AM

^^I've heard nothing but good things about them and their customer service (I've never had to use it though, so I wouldn't know for myself)

the only company I've heard that is better about stuff is Ruger (which is why I might wait and save up to buy their new rifle instead of piecing together a traditional AR)

7/31/2009 7:14:28 AM

^^ oh, no doubt you can kill deer effectively with a .22-250, or even a .223. It's more of a question of why you'd do so unless you had to. Other rounds are much, much better suited for the job.

7/31/2009 11:49:49 PM

Things that most folks consider "better suited" for deer than a centerfire .22 aren't really that much better. It's all about what you're slinging out of it - a good handloaded 70+ grain round from a .223 will drop whitetail like a sack of bricks all day long.

If you're more comfortable shooting something with more energy, then by all means go for it, but don't write off a good centerfire .22 as a multipurpose deer/varmint gun if that's what you want to do with it.

^^Taurus makes a good product, but everyone I know with one, even me, has a horror story experience with their CS at some point. It's great when it's good, but it's the absolute worst when it's bad.

[Edited on August 1, 2009 at 8:48 AM. Reason : ,]

8/1/2009 8:45:40 AM

Is anyone interested in coming over to my place and schooling me on ARs?
Take down, cleaning, parts, part names, upgrades.....



[Edited on August 6, 2009 at 8:27 PM. Reason : .]

8/6/2009 8:16:06 PM

I would recommend taking a look at the ar15.com guides
http://www.ar15.com/content/guides/maintenance/

and the armalite version, no pics but it does use the phrase "good enough for government work"
http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes%5CTech%20Note%2029,%20Rifle%20Cleaning,%2099.04.pdf

8/6/2009 8:28:48 PM

Open Carry dinner
Saturday August 8th, 7:00 PM
Cracker Barrel on Airport Blvd, exit 284 on I-40

That is tomorrow.
7 confirmed, 9 possible currently.

[Edited on August 6, 2009 at 10:02 PM. Reason : .]

8/6/2009 9:59:30 PM

^Bring that AR pistola along and I can give you the AR noob armorers course.

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 10:15 AM. Reason : There or at my house. I live about 5-8 minutes from there.]

8/7/2009 10:15:17 AM

dammit. I don't think I'll be making it to this one.

8/7/2009 10:55:37 AM

abbradsh gave me the noob course last night when he picked up the brass.
BTW, the fiance doesn't know about this toy yet, so lets not talk about it at dinner.

8/7/2009 12:20:02 PM

silly silly folks, keeping secrets from their sig others.... it ALWAYS backfires. Well, unless you get her one of the pink grip m&p's to keep the peace.

8/7/2009 4:25:23 PM

I'm not keeping secrets...... its just a surprise
With us starting to look for a house, she sees all guns, accessories, and range trips as taking away rooms and Sq.Ft.

8/8/2009 12:51:52 PM

so, you know that statistic about how 80% of people shot by handguns survive?

Well, I know a guy who shot 2 intruders in a home invasion a couple of months ago. He hit each of them 4 times with hollow-point .40 S&W rounds, including 2 to the FACE on one of them. They BOTH survived.

Now, one of them lost his colon and will have to wear a bag to shit in for the rest of his life, and the other one is now dyslexic (they both have all sorts of problems, many of which will be permanent--they took a helluva beating...one of them was hospitalized for well over a month, I think)...but they did indeed survive.

I saw the pictures of the aftermath of the scene...it looked like he got them with a chainsaw, not a pistol.

8/10/2009 1:40:27 PM

Yeah, it honestly doesn't surprise me at all that they didn't die and the fact that one ended up with an ostomy pouching system is also no surprise whatsoever to me.

8/10/2009 1:52:45 PM

Anyone make the gun show over the weekend?

I looked at a few ARs and was really liking a flat top S&W model, but forced myself to leave before I could hand over my credit card. The guy was trying to talk me into buying a similar Del-Ton from him for $200 less, but I knew nothing about the brand so I decided to go home and research it first.

8/10/2009 2:49:25 PM

^^^ That's what happens when you use a weak ass gun. Good thing they didn't mess with my Killsome Combat 1911 with .45 BMG Hydra-kill bullets.

But seriously, I was on detail out at Rucker's SERE school and one of the instructors watched his partner get shot 5 times with a .45, including the jaw and still managed to return fire on the kid who'd shot him, hitting the kid 9 times. Neither one died.

Pistols are marginal at best.

8/10/2009 2:55:39 PM

^^ Were you talking to the Rocky Point guy? I think I was browsing right beside you when that exchange happened. The Del-ton is actually Nc manufactured and a quality firearm. My g/f and my dad both have one, and I wouldn't hesitate to own one myself if I was looking to get another.

I didn't spend too long there, since all I needed was powder and it was insanely overpriced.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 2:57 PM. Reason : .]

8/10/2009 2:55:47 PM

Quote :

"Pistols are marginal at best."

This is exactly what I've been trying to tell these 9mm vs. .45acp retards for years!

8/10/2009 2:57:51 PM

Yeah, I've owned a SIG P226 in 9mm and a 1911 in .45 acp, and think that they're both fantastic weapons. I don't sweat the caliber differences.

and I agree, pistol rounds are marginal, but I figured that 4 shots apiece with hollow points from a .40 (including 2 to the face on one guy!) would've killed at least one of them.

8/10/2009 3:05:17 PM

^^^ That might have been the guy, I can't remember what the company was.

I looked up Del-Tons and found mostly good reviews. I also had a guy trying to sell me on Rock River Arms ARs which I looked up too and saw some good things. Maybe it's brand loyalty, but I'm still liking the Smith & Wesson M&P 15.

I also saw a few Galils that I liked at what seemed like reasonable prices.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 3:14 PM. Reason : ^]

8/10/2009 3:10:03 PM

^^ Yeah, truthfully, I'm a bit surprised. What is more important than killing them is did it stop them?

According to most FBI ballistic studies penetration, not expansion, is king. The problem is, you trade that off with HPs.

8/10/2009 3:16:28 PM

Quote :

"and I agree, pistol rounds are marginal, but I figured that 4 shots apiece with hollow points from a .40 (including 2 to the face on one guy!) would've killed at least one of them."

Yeah, I've seen some decent footage of an officer getting shot in the face at point blank range and being completely conscious and returning fire. But he was literally choking on his own blood it was running down his throat so fast. It fucked up his cheek and the roof of his mouth basically.

8/10/2009 4:16:19 PM

^^ oh hell yeah, it definitely stopped them.

I don't think penetration was an issue...he fired 9 times, and scored 8 hits...and there were bullet holes all over the place. There was one that went through a wall and through his grill in the backyard.

8/10/2009 4:25:47 PM

Quote :

"According to most FBI ballistic studies penetration, not expansion, is king. The problem is, you trade that off with HPs."

That's always a good point for those who are looking for defensive loads.
Too many people get hung up on the diameter of the expanded bullets.
I use hollow points, but I always research the terminal ballistics. I won't carry anything that won't penetrate at least 12" (except for 380) in bare or clothed ballistics gel...and truthfully in the real world that might not be enough. Imagine shooting a 500+lb fat man in the man boob. He might have more than 12" of boobie alone...

#1 is reach the vitals. #2 is make a big hole.

With 380acp few loads penetrate 12 inches, even most FMJ, so I just accept that fact and still carry one for convenience. I load it with Hornady's FTX, but when cool weather comes around the Sig 225 will some out or the J frame with LSWC +P.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 4:53 PM. Reason : Ohh, and hydrostatic shock means nothing in a pistol. There's just not enough power.]

8/10/2009 4:51:43 PM

Quote :

"I figured that 4 shots apiece with hollow points from a .40 (including 2 to the face on one guy!) would've killed at least one of them."

his problem was how fast EMS got to the scene, not what he shot them with.

8/10/2009 9:17:52 PM

That's exactly what he said...he said that EMS was there almost instantly.

I don't know that he views it as a "problem", though. I think that he is fairly indifferent as to whether they survived.

8/10/2009 10:27:20 PM

Yeah that's the other thing I was thinking as well. You can inflict mortal wounds with a handgun, but those wounds sometimes don't kill the person for days. Even without any medical attention they still might live for minutes, hours or days depending upon the wounds.

Of course this happens with handguns more often than rifles or shotguns, simply because with the latter two you cause so much more damage to surrounding tissues it seems. I guess the shock (And damage itself) to the body from each round is so much greater with rifles/shotguns that you have a better chance of stopping them with a minimal number of rounds.

For instance, with a solid hit from a load of buckshot, shouldn't your BP drop rather quickly regardless of whether or not your CNS was affected, simply because of so many wounds being created simultaneously? I'd think this would make it difficult to remain standing for any length of time.

8/11/2009 2:25:42 PM