Quote :

"i do have another question for athiests: will you get married in a church? or will you be buried with words read from the bible?"

No on both counts.

12/12/2007 1:41:08 PM

Quote :

"I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO...jeez, keep it confined to a specific time, would you? so what if you don't like what christianity has become? today's christianity has absolutely NO bearing on the reasons for the establishing of christmas or who chose to celebrate it"

yeah okay, but people trying to convert other people = still the same idea

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 1:43 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 1:41:51 PM

that, and what kind of Christians have tried to convert you? and how?

12/12/2007 1:41:57 PM

and besides? as you've noted, not all christians are the same...i don't like the obnoxious ones, either

12/12/2007 1:43:04 PM

I know they're not all the same. But if you assume that they had an equally mixed bag of zealots and non-zealots back then, I'm sure there there were people witnessing and trying to convert others. Plus, people were converted at a much greater rate back towards the beginning: maybe there were even more people pressuring others into conversion, I don't know.

12/12/2007 1:44:37 PM

back towards the beginning, they were persecuted for believing in it.

12/12/2007 1:45:55 PM

Yes but we're talking about at least post-Roman stuff here, so Christianity was at least a major world religion by then.

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 1:47 PM. Reason : think Justinan through Charlemange]

12/12/2007 1:46:28 PM

Quote :

"Athiests celebrate because it makes them, for at least 1 day out of the year, not feel like a godless heathen with no reason to live. "

Just because you don't believe in a god/gods doesn't mean you have no reason to live.

12/12/2007 1:46:40 PM

Quote :

"I know they're not all the same. But if you assume that they had an equally mixed bag of zealots and non-zealots back then, I'm sure there there were people witnessing and trying to convert others. Plus, people were converted at a much greater rate back towards the beginning: maybe there were even more people pressuring others into conversion, I don't know."

i think that it's exactly the opposite...because of the persecution, you HAD to be strong your faith, because it could cost you your life...no way i'd believe you'd have the same mix of people then that we have today, not even close

Quote :

"Yes but we're talking about at least Roman/post-Roman stuff here, so Christianity was at least a major world religion by then."

that's true, and i won't pretend to know the politics of it during that time period in particular (all i remember is that it's gotten increasingly easier to choose your own religion without persecution, globally)

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 1:48 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 1:47:02 PM

ah, you need to be more specific.

12/12/2007 1:47:10 PM

^^ So you'd claim there are bigger zealots at the beginning? Oh dear.

I'm afraid the ones who are REALLY STRONG in the faith are the really annoying "omg conversion!!!" ones.

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 1:49 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 1:48:24 PM

use of "zealot" has a decidedly negative connotation...while i'm sure there were some, i'm quite sure that there were more of genuine motives than of fanatical designs

Quote :

"I'm afraid the ones who are REALLY STRONG in the faith are the really annoying "omg conversion!!!" ones."

i don't believe that they are...because christianity teaches tolerance, although it does cause to spread the word...nowhere does it say to be annoying, obnoxious, rude, or hateful

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 1:49:49 PM

Oh dear? They had good reason to think that Christ was coming back in their lifetimes. Christianity was the light in pretty shitty lives. So yes, they were more zealous. Wouldn't you be more enthusiastic about something in a similar situation?

12/12/2007 1:50:35 PM

Quote :

"I'm afraid the ones who are REALLY STRONG in the faith are the really annoying "omg conversion!!!" ones."

I am very strong in my faith, but I don't go busting down people's doors throwing bibles at them. If it comes up in conversation with someone who doesn't believe then of course I'm going to try to talk it up, but I wouldn't think less of them for not believing.

12/12/2007 1:51:10 PM

Quote :

"use of "zealot" has a decidedly negative connotation...while i'm sure there were some, i'm quite sure that there were more of genuine motives than of fanatical designs"

well sure

but there's also an interesting sense, if you read the Bible, that the second coming of Christ was expected to be rather soon after it came out

which may have spawned even more excited believers

Quote :

"Oh dear? They had good reason to think that Christ was coming back in their lifetimes. Christianity was the light in pretty shitty lives. So yes, they were more zealous. Wouldn't you be more enthusiastic about something in a similar situation?"

which chembob said before I could post

I don't mean "oh dear, believers!" I mean, "oh dear, I bet they tried REALLY hard to convert people!"
Because of the ensuing apocalypse for them if they didn't believe and such.

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 1:54 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 1:51:48 PM

Someone should post Huey's speech from Boondocks about Christmas. I can't find it.

12/12/2007 1:53:08 PM

Quote :

"may have"

i think that's valid, but impossible to prove...i agree that there were people in both camps

12/12/2007 1:53:19 PM

But it hasn't changed. The Bible doesn't specify how soon is soon to Jesus. And it's still the Light in shitty lives. Yea, things have changed, but a lot of things have not.

12/12/2007 1:54:14 PM

Oh I know.

And part of the reason I hated Sunday school was the focus on "hey, witness to as many people as possible, especially the gays: they're totally going to hell if we can't change their hearts towards Jesus!"

sigh

12/12/2007 1:55:38 PM

SF, I have a feeling that you grew up in one of those churches who tried to exclude people more than invite them in. That is probably why you have a lot of built up dislike towards Christians today.

12/12/2007 1:56:59 PM

I've met quite a lot of stable ones since then. But not too many in that church, no.

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 1:58 PM. Reason : I have no reason to dislike anyone who has the decency to leave me alone about my religion.]

12/12/2007 1:57:58 PM

my family moved churches several times before we found one that was what we felt we needed - it's smaller, very community-oriented, and focuses more on actions than words

i've never been told i'd go to hell if i did A, B, or C, or was of any particular sexual orientation, or anything like that

^ i wasn't trying to preach to you, you know...i was trying to understand your extreme dislike for christians in general...i understand you have your reasons, and i don't disagree that they seem like good ones...but grouping all christians in the same group would be just as unfair as me saying all non-christians are bad people

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:00 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 1:59:07 PM

oh I didn't ever say all Christians were bad people, though some of them need to learn more about tolerance

though I think most of the disconnect for them (the preachy ones) is that they can't imagine what life would be like without it revolving around God, and so they're absolutely flabbergasted when someone comes along who doesn't have that kind of theistic bent going on 24/7

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:05 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 2:04:43 PM

well, those people are "Jesus Freaks." a lot of Christians aren't like that, tho. there's a problem when you're that crazy - most of the people I know like that only hang out with each other, etc. they have given up the world, yes, but they forget it's the world we're supposed to spread the message to.

12/12/2007 2:06:11 PM

well, i CAN'T imagine what my life would be like without god in the center...and while i (personally) think that atheists must be lonely (unfair and subjective, i realize), it's not like i feel they should be slammed with it at every opportunity

12/12/2007 2:07:45 PM

Why do I need God when I have family and friends who keep me from being lonely?

12/12/2007 2:09:17 PM

because it's not about loneliness

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:12 PM. Reason : quagmire has it wrong about loneliness]

12/12/2007 2:09:51 PM

[not reading the whole thread]

athiests celebrate christmas b/c christmas is about santa claus and presents.

12/12/2007 2:11:18 PM

to be fair, i don't mean "lonely" in the conventional sense...poor word choice on my part

12/12/2007 2:14:27 PM

Quote :

"i (personally) think that atheists must be lonely (unfair and subjective, i realize), it's not like i feel they should be slammed with it at every opportunity"

While I'm not an atheist, I don't think loneliness is a fair assessment. Some of them are honestly happier that they feel they've "figured it out" and can move on with their lives without brooding over some of the bigger theistic questions.

I mean, maybe awareness that you, as a human, are alone in the universe. But that doesn't really mean you have to be a lonely person. And it doesn't necessarily even entail a sense of ennui, either, if you find that human creativity and experimentation are endlessly interesting. That's sort of an existential way of looking at it, I guess.

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:16 PM. Reason : ,]

12/12/2007 2:15:12 PM

Quote :

"well, i CAN'T imagine what my life would be like without god in the center"

well, you can have premarital sex. and drink. and spend your money on whatever you want (instead of donating to church). and sleep late on sundays, and wake up just in time for football. it has its ups and downs.

12/12/2007 2:16:32 PM

^^ again, i realize it was poor word choice because it doesn't correctly reflect what i meant...but i can't think of a word that does

Quote :

"well, you can have premarital sex. and drink. and spend your money on whatever you want (instead of donating to church). and sleep late on sundays, and wake up just in time for football."

actually, as a christian, i can do all of those things...there are different versions of christianity based on different interpretations of the bible and specific verses...do i agree with them all? no...do i agree with some of them? yes.

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:18 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 2:16:48 PM

"ennui" is the closest I could get to what I think you meant

but even then, there are outliers to every generalization like that

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:17 PM. Reason : so oh well]

12/12/2007 2:17:41 PM

Quote :

"there are different versions of christianity based on different interpretations of the bible and specific verses...do i agree with them all? no...do i agree with some of them? yes. "

i agree with the part of the bible that talks about giving presents to each other on december 25th. . . .

12/12/2007 2:19:14 PM

really? never read about that (which is your point, i know)...which is specifically why i give presents but try my absolute best to accept none...i tell all my friends i'd rather have a donation to a charity or something, rather than presents...i'd give none, too, but some people don't feel the way i do about it

12/12/2007 2:20:57 PM

high-five on telling everyone about it! i like the part of the bible about gloating about charitable giving as well!

12/12/2007 2:22:25 PM

hey quagmire was that you who sold the shitty computer to that guy?? lol


what a motherfucker you are

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 2:22:25 PM

oh, good, this again...no, i sold him a working computer he broke 3 weeks later after my 2-week guarantee on it...yes, he pisses and moans and threatens and whines every chance he gets...no, i don't care

12/12/2007 2:24:29 PM

hahhaahhaaha..

i hope you burn in your shithole hell you christian cults believe in

did you really not suspect it of breaking within 3 weeks?

12/12/2007 2:25:46 PM

a computer? no, i didn't...obviously, your experience with electronics is minimal or non-existent...additionally, i don't guarantee that the purchaser isn't a dumbass who knows nothing about computers and breaks it himself...i'm not here to watch out for him like his mother should have

and if i'm going to hell for that, i don't suppose there's much i can do about it, is there?

oh, and there are some denominations who do not believe in hell, as its reference in the bible is ambiguous based on certain translations

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:28 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 2:27:28 PM

^obviously

lol. damn son. i expect a coming out of the closet thread soon by you.

12/12/2007 2:29:22 PM

ummm...okay? don't worry, babe, we can hold hands and make one together

you're the bitch, though

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:30 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 2:30:04 PM

Quote :

"and if i'm going to hell for that, i don't suppose there's much i can do about it, is there?"

you can repent your sins wrong denomination

12/12/2007 2:32:05 PM

^^ I am convinced you are a female.

Pics of ur tits plz or this thread is worthless.

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:32 PM. Reason : ^^]

12/12/2007 2:32:08 PM

uhhh, whoa @ this thread

12/12/2007 2:32:20 PM

quagmire02 - 71 posts today so far. you're on quite a pace


is your "F5" key still in tact? your compulsion needs a doctor... lol.

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 2:37 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2007 2:37:29 PM

Quote :

"actually, as a christian, i can do all of those things"

So, can I believe in gay marriage, stem cell research, and evolution and still be christian?

12/12/2007 2:41:53 PM

this thread sucks

12/12/2007 2:43:05 PM

maybe, it depends on if it conflicts with your belief in god

12/12/2007 2:43:23 PM

Quote :

"So, can I believe in gay marriage, stem cell research, and evolution and still be christian?"

Yes, you can. But then you can't be a Republican. But if you aren't a Republican then you aren't a good Christian. Wait... WAT?

12/12/2007 2:45:01 PM